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Post by Maolsheachlann on Dec 16, 2019 11:11:21 GMT
I'm finally finishing Irish Folk Ways,a 1950s book written by an Northern academic who was still able to observe much in his own time,such as curragh making by fishermen who actually made them for the actual purpose. Much of the book deals with traditional day-to-day living and farming,not traditions-for-tradition but they might be worth an overview: -booley houses and the rundale farming systems -thatched houses came in various methods (ie, roped thatch,scollop thatch,some more common in one county than another);there was also a Halloween thatching game 'Building the House' -clochaun buildings (as pigsties,for poultry or humans[therapeutic sweat-houses]) -tools such as gowl-gobs,steveens,graffans -cutting turf,stacking peet etc. My father(b.1935)mentioned that this was considered a basic skill for boyscouts in his time -hay and flax making were perhaps quite universal and utilitarian but the harvest knots were a folk custom "girls would wear them in their hair,boys in their coats" -much is said of sea harvesting,both seaweeds and fish (including non-fish animals) I was surprised that eels were so important,eel rakes are illustrated. Pens to hold the seaweeds are illustrated from Waterford, Down and Mayo. Elvers were mixed with milk to make eel-cheese The uses of straw might concern us most here: "rushes,grasses and straw have long been playthings for young folk...we described St Brigid's Crosses elsewhere...among the many toys and playthings made of rushes we find baskets for wild strawberries and blaeberries,rattles,butterfly cages,fishing nets,caps,bracelets,belts,hatbands,mock-ceremonial whips,canes and swords and imitation birds feet and flowers...many of them are associated with particular occasions of the year for example imitation flowers with Easter and the blaeberries baskets with Garland Sunday" St Stephen's day,Halloween, wakes and weddings are briefly dealt with. Straw boys still existed in Kerry in the 50s in a memoir I read a while ago. Competition over a bottle of whiskey seemed to serve the same purpose as catching the bouquet. There was supposed good luck attached to arriving at the bride's home first at one stage. Interesting- A small cluster of thorn trees in a field were said to belong to fairies and bring death to anyone who walked beneath them. Is it possible that this could have been an inspiration behind Tolkien's ents who defeated armies of orcs the same way? Fascinating stuff, Séamus. Thank you! I'd never heard of most of this stuff. I had never even heard of Garland Sunday. An interesting little piece about it here.
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Post by Séamus on Dec 26, 2019 12:18:54 GMT
I was unaware of Dusty Springfield's half-Kerry background until reading a piece in the paper today about a travel-journalist's ferry visit to Aran Islands: (at) the Cliffs of Moher(a passenger)can scatter the ashes of a loved one in the ocean. It's a sacred spot and many others with Irish roots have done the same,including the family of Mary Isobel Catherine Bernadette O'Brien. In 1999 some of her ashes were scattered off the cliffs at her request. You'll probably not be familiar with Mary,but you might know her by her professional name,Dusty Springfield" Don't know what she'd think that,despite being an unmistakeably well-known name, my own generation remembers her mostly as the lady that sang with the Pet Shop Boys once. And I'm not suggesting that either she or cremation are conservative, although she reportedly did have a Catholic requiem,but other things mentioned in the article are of interest- the writer mentions that the 280 people on Inis Oirr speak Gaelic as their first language (for the tourists anyway) and mention is made of Una (Oonagh perhaps?) McDonagh who keeps the traditions of hand-knitted Aran jumpers and weaving rush St Brigid's Crosses alive,showing interested tourists. June 14 open-air Mass to honour patron St.Caomhan-Kevin was remarked on also. In a globalised world where most resorts worldwide probably seem carbon copied,I daresay peoples would be delighted to experience the different-ness of weaving a cross. Wonder did it pass Australia's strict customs quarantine desk? Speaking of globalism,I came across an image of Goofy the other day dressed very much like a leprechaun with a background very much like a stylised shamrock. It was a logo from an American WWII-era airforce division based mostly in Oklahoma (which I wouldn't have thought the most Irish area in recent immigration history?) and is highlighted on Goofy's wiki page,but neither that or the page on this historical division gave any explanation of why he might look Irish,if I'm interpreting it rightly. Mysterious
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Post by Stephen on Dec 29, 2019 17:09:39 GMT
I think a unique Irish tradition is taking blessed straw from the Christmas crib and keeping it in your wallet/perse so it will never be empty.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 15, 2020 14:12:57 GMT
I heard no reference to the "Twelve Pubs of Christmas" this year-- has the tradition died out?
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Post by assisi on Jan 15, 2020 19:50:19 GMT
I heard no reference to the "Twelve Pubs of Christmas" this year-- has the tradition died out? Does this entail going to 12 pubs in one night? If so, it certainly was mentioned to me this Christmas just passed!
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Post by Séamus on Aug 10, 2020 12:29:43 GMT
The proverbial Irish dresser doesn't seem to have been mentioned here yet...despite minimal spending on decor I can recall my mother regularly changing the colour of her displayed delph when I was young;in an era of decluttering it may seem more like the stuff that folk museums are made of,or perhaps there could be renewed interest with the new reality of limited exterior dining this year. Anyway,I came across one caption in a 1990s book about Irish cottages that I just revisited: "sometimes known as the Welsh dresser,this was an important item of furniture in the cottage kitchen. Both functional and ornamental,it was generally made of deal timber,the lower part having doors to a closed cupboard with drawers. The upper part had open shelves on which to display the delph and sometimes hooks on which to hang cups..." (Which was actually all fairly obvious from the full-page photo of the Antrim building) "... traditionally they (two deal chairs also) would have been left unpainted and scrubbed clean from time to time." As a Vogue-like accessory plug, mention is also made of the doors being sheeted,legged and braced,the floor 'flagged'. Later,a caption containing a history of the cottage window accompanies an image of a Donegal home, described as having 'Georgian panes'. Does the choice of term betray oppression or colonialism these days? Or if we learn anything from the life of John Hume should he teach us to see Englishman beyond an image of "paper houses, stretching out for miles and miles,old men in stripey trousers,rule the world with plastic smiles.…"- if so, another photograph highlighted a minor factor in the Irish cottage tradition- nissan huts converted to the purpose: "named after their inventor,the British mining engineer Peter Nissan....some have now been put to other uses,this one (Ballyporeen Tipperary) anchored here amid shrubs and lilies makes a comfortable home. The pump is probably ornamental,but before the days of piped water such pumps would have provided water from an underground source..." (cf w.pfeiffer,m.shaffrey,Irish cottages) The pretend-pump piper and nissan cottage dweller was a lady who seems over 80,unlikely to be still of this world. Goodness knows whether anyone from the modcon generation which followed had interest in living there, notwithstanding the ability of many these days to own a holiday residence. We can only speculate at this stage what a Hong Kong exodus might settle for.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 3, 2020 14:52:11 GMT
I only learned yesterday that there is a tradition called Fraughan Sunday, or Lamass Sunday, on which bilberries are best picked, or something like that. thewildgeese.irish/m/blogpost?id=6442157%3ABlogPost%3A195908I'm getting more disillusioned about the preservation of traditions in Ireland. Irish people don't care. It hurts too much to always be grieved about it. I'm more inclined to just stick to our own little conservative enclaves and let the rest slide into utter rootless banality.
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Post by cato on Oct 3, 2020 17:47:05 GMT
I only learned yesterday that there is a tradition called Fraughan Sunday, or Lamass Sunday, on which bilberries are best picked, or something like that. thewildgeese.irish/m/blogpost?id=6442157%3ABlogPost%3A195908I'm getting more disillusioned about the preservation of traditions in Ireland. Irish people don't care. It hurts too much to always be grieved about it. I'm more inclined to just stick to our own little conservative enclaves and let the rest slide into utter rootless banality. There is an "old Lamass Fair" held at the end of every August in Ballycastle in Antrim. It's notorious for Yellowman - a yellow honey flavoured rock sweet and dulse (dried seaweed) . Its been on the go for at least 400 years and is possibly much older. Originally Lamass is linked to a Mass when bread made from newly harvested wheat was blessed. The modern Catholic liturgy unlike the Anglican doesn't have a harvest liturgy which seems odd now we are so environmentally conscious. It's also unusual how a feast once based on the old catholic liturgical cycle is still celebrated in a protestant area. I am not too sure if Ballycastle is a catholic area or not. I wonder Maolsheachlann are you being a little severe with the Irish public? I think most of them are "Invincibly ignorant" in this as in so many issues. How to awake them from their stupor is another issue.
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Post by kj on Oct 4, 2020 14:18:49 GMT
I'm reluctant to spread despair or discourage anyone, but I must admit that Maolsheachlann's views strike a resonant chord. As I've said a couple times lately, the power of Indifference (capitalised intentionally) is one often overlooked in much political and theological discourse.
We live in a society where consumerism, comfort and non-imposition on others are the core values. The vast majority of people are not interested in anything else.
I think the whole world is going this way, as far as I can see, for better or for worse. Maybe given its history a Land of the Lotus Eaters scenario is the best the human race as a whole can hope for.
The post-45 consensus, geared toward avoiding a global military apocalypse, is aimed first and foremost at reducing the power of all conviction and sharp belief, lest they incite violence.
Is it a price worth paying if it means avoiding a nuclear WW3? Each must decide themselves.
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Post by Séamus on Oct 5, 2020 7:50:33 GMT
I'm reluctant to spread despair or discourage anyone, but I must admit that Maolsheachlann's views strike a resonant chord. As I've said a couple times lately, the power of Indifference (capitalised intentionally) is one often overlooked in much political and theological discourse. We live in a society where consumerism, comfort and non-imposition on others are the core values. The vast majority of people are not interested in anything else. I think the whole world is going this way, as far as I can see, for better or for worse. Maybe given its history a Land of the Lotus Eaters scenario is the best the human race as a whole can hope for. The post-45 consensus, geared toward avoiding a global military apocalypse, is aimed first and foremost at reducing the power of all conviction and sharp belief, lest they incite violence. Is it a price worth paying if it means avoiding a nuclear WW3? Each must decide themselves. One concept I've noted in starting Mr Buck's Gentle Traditionalist is how a country's (in this case Ireland's) past and culture can permeate oasies-style even the modern desert. Not sure if he meant it that way. I saw a full-page newspaper ad yesterday for, strangely I thought, considering the current unpredictability of travel freedom,a Pacific cruise. The paragraph on the New Zealand city of Dunedin was unusual. It was described as a place where Scottish immigrants settled and mentioned that there exists a Dunedin tartan. I found that it was indeed on the Register of Scottish Tartan. I thought- good for them, leaving such a cultural mark to our day!(and not by any means detrimental to native designs- Maori design has enormous nationwide profile from what I hear.) There's been much controversy about an Australian foundation's proposed Western Civilization scholarships in the last couple of years,with at least one University changing it's mind about any involvement. I read today that Australian Catholic University will apparently begin the BA with 30 scholarships next year "Homer, Aristotle, Aquinas, Shakespeare, Thomas Hobbes,Mary Wollstonecraft and Leo Tolstoy"(cf news weekly Oct 2020) Mr Buck among others has remarked how Irish monks had been instrumental in saving much of the classical philosophers. It was only when looking at Mr Roger's timeline that it actually dawned on me that only a few decades had passed between St Patrick and the final fall of Rome as they'd known it. Another thought that came to me today, being St Faustina Kowaslka's feast- was she the first saint whose appearance was generally known from a passport photo? The Poland of her time saw nothing strange about a sister in full habit and veil on an official photo of this sort. How does this compare this with modern France or Turkey and discussion about hijabs and burkas? Where would religious fit in? A photo I saw once of an Aer Lingus plane coming to Australia shortly after the Council to bring an entire liner of Mercy Sisters 'home' for a visit shortly after relaxations allowed this comes to mind. If,hypothetically, the same women wished to dress similarly today, which,if any, society would they feel comfortable in? Would they do so even in Poland?
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Post by assisi on Oct 7, 2020 19:37:10 GMT
I'm reluctant to spread despair or discourage anyone, but I must admit that Maolsheachlann's views strike a resonant chord. As I've said a couple times lately, the power of Indifference (capitalised intentionally) is one often overlooked in much political and theological discourse. We live in a society where consumerism, comfort and non-imposition on others are the core values. The vast majority of people are not interested in anything else. I think the whole world is going this way, as far as I can see, for better or for worse. Maybe given its history a Land of the Lotus Eaters scenario is the best the human race as a whole can hope for. The post-45 consensus, geared toward avoiding a global military apocalypse, is aimed first and foremost at reducing the power of all conviction and sharp belief, lest they incite violence. Is it a price worth paying if it means avoiding a nuclear WW3? Each must decide themselves. That is a good summing up of where we're at and where we are going. However pursuing this kind of culturally airbrushed consumer future may well give rise to the law of unintended consequences, whereby the utopia sought so desperately never materialises and some other entity is provoked into play. R. Reno has a good essay in First Things called 'Return of the Strong Gods' that touches on this post 45 consensus: www.firstthings.com/article/2017/05/return-of-the-strong-gods
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Post by rogerbuck on Oct 16, 2020 22:49:15 GMT
Well, having just said on another thread, I would be quiet, I find this stimulating thread ... has stimulated me ... to say something ... or other.
May not come out well. I am tired.
I feel the real pain in your post, Mal.
And in addition to your bit, kj, about post 1945 core values . . .
I am with thoughts about what we call "entertainment" drugging us.
Will relate an unusual experience for me. Unusual in that I have no television ...
But I took a free 30 day Amazon Prime trial . . . and for the first time in many years started watching a television series.
Given that I never see such things anymore, I felt very conscious of the (American in this case) need to "keep the customer satisfied", keep the audience "entertained".
I have felt very aware of the experience being enticing, hypnotic somehow.
DESIGNED to be enticing, hypnotic.
It reminded of a time in my life when I was glued to series (above all, Star Trek).
And how Star Trek worked on me to just keep me entertained, giving me various kinds of "eye candy" in my youth ...
All kinds of things I mean here, including, but not limited, shall we say, to feminine allure ...
Just put stuff in front of the eyes that the eyes want to see. Great special effects ... whatever.
(I am not that musical, but I also think of people just being given what the ears want to hear. Great guitar solos ... Bananarama . . . whatever.)
Again, I feel the pain in your post, Mal. That the Irish don't care.
And I worry about this unusual, hypnotic experience I've been indulging in with my Amazon Prime 30 day trial.
I don't want to completely knock these things. They do contain artistry (eg Patrick Stewart's acting!).
But it's the fact that the artistry has been subjugated to manufacturing something for the purpose of hypnotic enticement.
I guess, dear Mal, I've been thinking of some of your conundrums with media.
Ideally, art should exist for its own sake, but it inevitably gets mixed up in these capitalist agendas.
OK, Shakespeare's company circa 1600 needed to make money, too. But thise need to keep the millions hooked was not there.
All the other entertainments trying to keep us hooked.
And now the Irish don't care ... so many of don't care ...
We just want to be entertained ...
Whew! I need to shut up and be silent again for a bit I think ...
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Post by rogerbuck on Oct 16, 2020 22:56:30 GMT
I shall add: I once knew a woman who had been in a band that had at least one Top 40 hit, maybe more.
But she was living a kind of drop-out hippy life when I knew her and she said the reason she dropped out was the insistent demand of the record company to make the music commercial.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 1, 2020 14:56:06 GMT
The obituary website rip.ie has become the de facto national register of deaths. Everyone seems to use it.
My wife was looking for the funeral details of an American friend and mentioned there was no US equivalent.
Is it a distinctively Irish phenomenon or do other countries have something similar?
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Post by Séamus on Dec 24, 2020 11:00:02 GMT
From Eamon Kelly, Christmas Confession, "in Domhnall Bán Ó Céileachair's SCÉAL MO BHEATHA he tells of hearing the old people of Coolea talk about the drink they had after the supper on Christmas Eve. It seems the man of the house would put a small pot of spring water in the fire, not exactly full, but near enough to it. As it began to come to the boil, the whiskey jar was uncorked and poured into the bubbling pot, sugar and I forget what other condiments were added, and the whole concoction well stirred with a wooden spoon. When it was ready, members of the household, and if there were neighbours visiting, took whatever vessel was next to hand, a cup, a mug, a bowl, even a small saucepan, and dipping it into the pot and drinking, they toasted Christmas, and prayed all would be alive to enjoy another draft , the same time next year. They didn't go too far with the drink according to Domhnall Bán because of the religious nature of the occasion I suppose..." I read this in a 1989 collection 'Christmas in Ireland'. I'd imagine drinking out of a saucepan these days would constitute a deprivation of human rights. It's amazing how many commas were still required in the 80s, excepting the last line which seems to lack one. I've read pieces by Kelly before and he seemed a head full of knowledge on these traditions.
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