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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 18, 2017 13:55:23 GMT
I know not everyone on this forum will be a fan of either Brexit or Trump, nor is everybody resident in Ireland. But I'm wondering if my own experience tallies with that of other members. I work in a university library and I constantly have it assumed, in general conversation with my colleagues, that I MUST be opposed to both Trump and Brexit. It's extraordinary.
When I tell them I'm all in favour of Brexit, and quite favourable to Trump, it's not like their jaws drop or they launch into a harangue or anything. I haven't really got any flak for disagreeing on these issues. But I'm surprised that my agreement is simply assumed all the time.
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Post by bryanreynolds on May 18, 2017 19:41:21 GMT
Yes, that's spot on. It's just assumed.
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Post by MourningIreland on May 28, 2017 18:13:20 GMT
I know not everyone on this forum will be a fan of either Brexit or Trump, nor is everybody resident in Ireland. But I'm wondering if my own experience tallies with that of other members. I work in a university library and I constantly have it assumed, in general conversation with my colleagues, that I MUST be opposed to both Trump and Brexit. It's extraordinary. When I tell them I'm all in favour of Brexit, and quite favourable to Trump, it's not like their jaws drop or they launch into a harangue or anything. I haven't really got any flak for disagreeing on these issues. But I'm surprised that my agreement is simply assumed all the time. Through a combination of circumstance and choice I move in both middle-class and working-class circles on a regular basis. I've observed that the middle-classes are overwhelmingly and vocally anti-Trump and anti-Brexit. Same with the working classes, although I have come across a few vocal pro-Trump people in the working class (thank God). This leads me to believe that if the soul of Ireland is to be resurrected (something which on most days I feel to be only a very remote possibility), this movement will come largely out of the working classes - perhaps led by a few very brave, brilliant, and gifted members of the middle-class and upper class. This has kind of arguably always been the pattern in our history though, hasn't it? Daniel O'Connell, Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, Pearse, Connolly, etc. I'm largely "in the closet" with regard to my political views, although I do relax around the pro-Trump working class people that I know.
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Post by servantofthechief on Jun 1, 2017 15:34:11 GMT
I have been rather unapologetic and vocal in my denunciations of things I dislike (The EU, Neocons in America, French Toast) but cautious about what I really think regarding say, Trump. I argued my family down about both him and Brexit and ended up in the right on both counts, but counteracting the narrative that is consistently reinforced by media and corporations (Facebook anyone?) which is then repeated ad nuseum over water coolers is extraordinarily difficult.
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Post by cato on Jun 1, 2017 18:26:10 GMT
Trump annoys all the right people and it is always fun to watch liberals in fervent meltdown . I am somewhat ambivalent about him however. I admire his supreme court appointment , his current pro life views and his facing down of a chemical weapon using Syrian government.
His personality is flawed to put it very mildly. All leaders are egotists in some way but the Donald takes matters to a new level. His economic plans involve huge borrowings to stimulate growth. There is a huge difference in his confrontational style and the sunny optimistic vision of Ronald Reagan. Fundamentally he is not a conservative but a plutocrat who bought his way into the Republican party and who managed to defeat an arrogant complacent Democratic party candidate.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 1, 2017 20:30:53 GMT
Trump may be an egotist and a narcissist but I increasingly believe he is not a megalomaniac, that he is someone driven by patriotism and public duty. If he just wanted to be President he would take the line of least resistance once installed in the White House, and he certainly hasn't done that.
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Post by cato on Jun 2, 2017 9:07:09 GMT
Trumph is an intriguing and fascinating character but I just can't warm to him. I see him him as our first postmodern president with his previous career in reality tv , his celebrity lifestyle, and his very clever use of social media. The liberal complaints about a fascist revival miss the point that Trumph is a creature and product of our enlightened time.
Emotional , vain and with the attention span of a bluebottle he is dismissed by his irate furious opponents who actually share many of his character flaws. Maybe that's why they hate him so much. Like him or loath him the daily TV news is now the most addictive political drama show around.
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 2, 2017 9:26:55 GMT
Trumph is an intriguing and fascinating character but I just can't warm to him. I see him him as our first postmodern president with his previous career in reality tv , his celebrity lifestyle, and his very clever use of social media. The liberal complaints about a fascist revival miss the point that Trumph is a creature and product of our enlightened time. Emotional , vain and with the attention span of a bluebottle he is dismissed by his irate furious opponents who actually share many of his character flaws. Maybe that's why they hate him so much. Like him or loath him the daily TV news is now the most addictive political drama show around. His previous career was as a property developer - and a very successful one. "Reality TV" was a sideline after he became very successful in his chosen field. "Emotional" - American voters didn't want to elect a robot, they wanted a man who loves his country. In Ireland we used to understand that love of country, if it is to mean anything in the concrete world, has a strong emotional component. As regards President Trump's "attention span" - have you listened to the speeches or watched him in a debate? He is a very smart man. He's not an intellectual, but he has great instincts and, leader of men that he is, he hires intellectuals who share his vision (such as Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller) in order to help him implement it. There are plenty of "conservative intellectuals" in the American media who have been writing columns and books for decades, such as Thomas Sowell and George Weigel, but NONE has managed to accomplish what this man of action has for conservatism in America.
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 2, 2017 9:29:46 GMT
Trump may be an egotist and a narcissist but I increasingly believe he is not a megalomaniac, that he is someone driven by patriotism and public duty. If he just wanted to be President he would take the line of least resistance once installed in the White House, and he certainly hasn't done that. "Narcissist" - I don't see much evidence of this. Trump is quite unusual for a politician and celebrity in that he builds others up on a recurring basis. He is a joy to watch in this regard. This personal quality resonated with me and, I suspect, with millions of voters.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 2, 2017 11:37:17 GMT
Mourning Ireland, I agree with you-- I like Trump. I warm to his personal qualities. When I mention his "narcissism", I suppose I'm thinking about things like his fixation on how many people were at his inauguration, but it doesn't actually bother me. Many great men were rather egotistical-- Patrick Pearse, for instance, and even Blessed John Henry Newman.
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 2, 2017 12:25:21 GMT
Mourning Ireland, I agree with you-- I like Trump. I warm to his personal qualities. When I mention his "narcissism", I suppose I'm thinking about things like his fixation on how many people were at his inauguration, but it doesn't actually bother me. Many great men were rather egotistical-- Patrick Pearse, for instance, and even Blessed John Henry Newman. Yes, he has a massive ego allright. This massive ego is his achilles heel, but it is also what enables him to withstand the constant onslaught of cr*p he has to put up with day in and day out; a lesser mortal such as Reagan would never be able to survive in an environment of such unprecedented evil and hostility let alone thrive. God knew what he was doing when he equipped and anointed this oddball for such a time as this.
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Post by seangladium on Jun 15, 2017 10:44:41 GMT
I like Trump for the most part, and I think his style is effective and does resonate with many more people than the media are willing to admit. I don't agree with all his actions/positions necessarily, but I do think he has shown himself to be a man who will listen and correct his mistakes eventually. His story about how he came to a (mostly) pro-life position particularly struck me as authentic and not just the typical posturing that most opportunistic politicians engage in. This gave me some hope that he can be reasoned with on other important issues. I am very pleased with his support so far for freedom of religious expression compared to his reprehensible predecessor. I supported and voted for him during the Republican primary as I felt he stood out from the field of other Republican candidates (most of whom I couldn't stomach at all for various reasons). Naturally, I also voted for him again in November, and I was so glad when he won that at least one adult is back in charge of U.S. policy. I am not sure I approve of all his choices for his cabinet/staff, but the alternative (Clinton) was unthinkable!
I am quite sickened by the left-wing media's constant barrage of hatred for Trump and I truly fear for his safety especially after yesterday's horrific shooting that took place in Virginia. The media absolutely has blood on their hands yet they do not care (not that I am surprised)! I am not sure how many here closely follow U.S. politics but this whole Russia distraction has been unreal. They will stop at nothing until Trump is removed from office one way or another. Meanwhile, the actual criminals that were comprised of Obama, Clinton, Lynch, Holder, Rice, et al go free with no special counsel to investigate their many suspected crimes and coverups over the years. And don't even get me started on the feckless Republicans who enabled all this over the past 8 years or the neocon administration before them that led to this whole mess!
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 15, 2017 12:39:32 GMT
I am quite sickened by the left-wing media's constant barrage of hatred for Trump and I truly fear for his safety especially after yesterday's horrific shooting that took place in Virginia. The media absolutely has blood on their hands yet they do not care (not that I am surprised)! I am not sure how many here closely follow U.S. politics but this whole Russia distraction has been unreal. They will stop at nothing until Trump is removed from office one way or another. Meanwhile, the actual criminals that were comprised of Obama, Clinton, Lynch, Holder, Rice, et al go free with no special counsel to investigate their many suspected crimes and coverups over the years. And don't even get me started on the feckless Republicans who enabled all this over the past 8 years or the neocon administration before them that led to this whole mess! The assault on him is unrelenting and will not stop. The Leftists and their RINO collaborators have diverse intellectual power behind their propaganda machine - which is not only normalising violence against Republicans (as seen yesterday) but also conditioning millions to form a lynch mob to remove a duly elected president on manufactured charges - and an unlimited budget. They are following the Hitler playbook to keep the lie simple and repeat it often enough until people believe it. By forcing him to fend off these 24x7 attacks which also involve minute scrutiny of every action - scrutiny that no democrat would ever be subject to - they are hamstringing the administration from implementing the voters' agenda. It's a propaganda war for hearts and minds, and unless Americans who support Trump pull together to demand respect for him by contacting public representatives, turning up for protests, marches, and counter-protests, they may very well succeed.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 15, 2017 13:14:43 GMT
And sadly, Christians and Catholics join in. I used to like the Catholic blogger Mark Shea, but he's become completely unhinged when it comes to Trump, who he can't shut up about: www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2017/06/every-day-next-four-years.htmlHe writes: Each day Trump provides his Christian supporters with a chance to repent their inexcusable defenses of all the lies, corruption, and incompetence and every day, instead of defending the unborn or the gospel they say is the #1 priority, they defend him instead. And their only defense is “But Hillary!” Hillary lost. Move on. You are defending evil now. You are defending it every day. And when you are done, abortion will still be legal and all you will have to show for it is the reality that you defend evil.
#Romans2:24
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 15, 2017 13:24:28 GMT
And sadly, Christians and Catholics join in. I used to like the Catholic blogger Mark Shea, but he's become completely unhinged when it comes to Trump, who he can't shut up about: www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2017/06/every-day-next-four-years.htmlHe writes: Each day Trump provides his Christian supporters with a chance to repent their inexcusable defenses of all the lies, corruption, and incompetence and every day, instead of defending the unborn or the gospel they say is the #1 priority, they defend him instead. And their only defense is “But Hillary!” Hillary lost. Move on. You are defending evil now. You are defending it every day. And when you are done, abortion will still be legal and all you will have to show for it is the reality that you defend evil.
#Romans2:24Wow, I knew Mark Shea had Trump Derangement Syndrome but I didn't realise how bad it was. Given that you want us to be polite here, I cannot say what I really think of Mark Shea these days.
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