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Post by kj on Dec 31, 2018 13:49:02 GMT
This is probably an uncharitable thread, so forgive me, but hey, we're all curmudgeons here:-)
Having spent the longest time in Ireland this summer than I have in seven years, I became acquainted with a couple of under 30 Irish males. I myself am 42. I found that very quickly conversation hit a wall, as they were utter Liberal ideologues. It was all pro-immigration, pro-multiculturalism, Islamo-sympathetic, anti-Catholic, pro-abortion, pro-homosexual and so on. The latter was a particular benchmark: when I asked one of them how a trip to Berlin was he replied: "Amazing. Gay couples everywhere. They are so far ahead of us." After a few weeks, I eventually had a slightly uncomfortable falling-out with both, as I am too old now to bother disguising my views and they are too young and naive to contemplate that there are other views aside from their own ultra-Liberalism.
I wonder was I just unlucky or has anyone else had a similar experience?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Dec 31, 2018 13:56:55 GMT
This is probably an uncharitable thread, so forgive me, but hey, we're all curmudgeons here:-) Having spent the longest time in Ireland this summer than I have in seven years, I became acquainted with a couple of under 30 Irish males. I myself am 42. I found that very quickly conversation hit a wall, as they were utter Liberal ideologues. It was all pro-immigration, pro-multiculturalism, Islamo-sympathetic, anti-Catholic, pro-abortion, pro-homosexual and so on. The latter was a particular benchmark: when I asked one of them how a trip to Berlin was he replied: "Amazing. Gay couples everywhere. They are so far ahead of us." After a few weeks, I eventually had a slightly uncomfortable falling-out with both, as I am too old now to bother disguising my views and they are too young and naive to contemplate that there are other views aside from their own ultra-Liberalism. I wonder was I just unlucky or has anyone else had a similar experience?
Not so much. First of all, I personally think this ideology extends way beyond the under-30s, even to the over-fifties. Secondly, I haven't really experienced many people so ideologically committed so you might, possibly, just be unlucky. As far as I can tell, most Irish people do drift along with the liberal-secular consensus but it only seems to be a minority (in any generation) who are really committed about it. Most people seem quite tolerant or even strangely admiring of my own views-- perhaps they see them as endearing eccentricities. But who is to say whether my experience is more typical than yours?
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Post by cato on Jan 5, 2019 14:36:53 GMT
I would agree with Maolsheachlann. PC ideologues are a noisy minority but people I know would regard them as as cranks. Most people I come across tend to take their views from the mainstream media but do listen to contrarian opinions and are not overtly hostile to a more conservative point of view. Maybe they are being vere tolerant!
I have noticed in more heated arguments a more liberal opponent will jump from point a to b to c rapidly rather that discuss any one point in depth. Younger people it seems rarely meet any one in the flesh that they disagree with on important issues, and find it hard not to see that person as a bad dangerous person. Just a few random observations.
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Post by kj on Jan 5, 2019 15:13:09 GMT
As an experiment that I knew would go wrong, I sent that Howlin article from the Examiner to a 32 year old friend of mine. He regards himself as a Republican, but hates the New Atheist brigade and global liberalism. He replied saying the article was nonsense, and that Pearse's vision was heavy on multiculturalism and feminism.
This is why I really shouldn't get too worked up about anything. Clearly Ireland is in such a state of flux that it can be anything to anyone. We seem to be adopting American principles of identity and society more and more each year. I am not saying if this is a good or a bad thing, just an observation.
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Post by cato on Jan 10, 2019 22:30:41 GMT
Perhaps I could post a significant piece of news here seeing the under 30s by and large don't reproduce , at least not in any great numbers.
Dan O Brien in todays's Irish Independent wrote an article which points out that the Irish birth rate is the lowest in 155 years or since written records commenced. This has not caused any public debate or discussion. Just like the vast importation of people from all over the globe is not an issue you discuss in polite circles.
Relatively speaking we are doing better than our European neighbours but current government policies seem to be relying on foreign workers to work to pay for the future pensions of the Irish. Or perhaps we ll discover we won't be able to afford luxuries like pensions in the future demographic winter. Feminism , tiny families and modern work practices may help destroy some of the fundamental benefits of the modern state.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 11, 2019 9:44:04 GMT
Perhaps I could post a significant piece of news here seeing the under 30s by and large don't reproduce , at least not in any great numbers. Dan O Brien in todays's Irish Independent wrote an article which points out that the Irish birth rate is the lowest in 155 years or since written records commenced. This has not caused any public debate or discussion. Just like the vast importation of people from all over the globe is not an issue you discuss in polite circles. Relatively speaking we are doing better than our European neighbours but current government policies seem to be relying on foreign workers to work to pay for the future pensions of the Irish. Or perhaps we ll discover we won't be able to afford luxuries like pensions in the future demographic winter. Feminism , tiny families and modern work practices may help destroy some of the fundamental benefits of the modern state. There may even by underlying philosophical reasons. The starting point of our public discussions today seems to be that life is meaningless and only has whatever meaning you grant it. And the meaning you grant it tends not to hold up in times of trial, affliction, ill-health, etc. Why bring children into a meaningless world?
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Post by cato on Jan 18, 2019 21:19:40 GMT
Generation Z internationally , at least in the West the most privileged class ever, will be the most progressive and left wing ever I fear when they come of age.
Swiss students have been striking this week demanding urgent climate action. Inevitably this boils down to carbon taxes which hit the old and the barely getting by predominately.Have a look at the yellow vest protests over the French border.
Young people will find it very difficult to access money for mortgages , will end up being paid less in general than their parents, will be landed with huge national debt (as in Ireland) and will have less job security. In addition the welfare state will be under immense pressure. I fear it will be almost inevitable there will be a huge swing to marxist parties particularly as the young have little knowledge of the death toll and economic cost of marxism. But they may feel they have no other way out.
When generation Z wreck what's left of the West they will swing right , perhaps.
Snowflakes of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your skinny lattes.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 18, 2019 22:14:02 GMT
Generation Z internationally , at least in the West the most privileged class ever, will be the most progressive and left wing ever I fear when they come of age. Swiss students have been striking this week demanding urgent climate action. Inevitably this boils down to carbon taxes which hit the old and the barely getting by predominately.Have a look at the yellow vest protests over the French border. Young people will find it very difficult to access money for mortgages , will end up being paid less in general than their parents, will be landed with huge national debt (as in Ireland) and will have less job security. In addition the welfare state will be under immense pressure. I fear it will be almost inevitable there will be a huge swing to marxist parties particularly as the young have little knowledge of the death toll and economic cost of marxism. But they nay feel they have no other way out. When generation Z wreck what's left of the West they will swing right , perhaps. Snowflakes of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your skinny lattes. I've heard some speculation Generation Z are actually more conservative. We can only hope. Certainly there seems to a strong groundswell of the populist right in Ireland-- although as it's mostly an online phenomenon, it's hard to tell what numbers are involved.
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Post by cato on Jan 20, 2019 23:02:28 GMT
I know this thread is about the Irish but the Norwegian prime minister has lamented the fall in the Norwegian birth rate and is urging people to have more children in order to support the very generous Norwegian welfare state.
Funny how our Irish leftists and liberals never point out their pro choice and anti family agendas do in fact have a rather obvious flaw. We need lots of babies to fund our retirement. No wait lots of foreign babies are going to do that for us.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 20, 2019 23:04:42 GMT
I know this thread is about the Irish but the Norwegian prime minister has lamented the fall in the Norwegian birth rate and is urging people to have more children in order to support the very generous Norwegian welfare state. Funny how our Irish leftists and liberals never point out their pro choice and anti family agendas do in fact have a rather obvious flaw. We need lots of babies to fund our retirement. No wait lots of foreign babies are going to do that for us. I have heard some people claim that the unspoken adjective in such appeals is "lots of WHITE babies". Eyeroll....
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Post by cato on Jan 20, 2019 23:07:05 GMT
I see Lord Fintan O Toole of D'Olier St had a column in his little paper about the future prospects of babies born this year in Ireland.
Thanks to his paper in part those same babies may now be legally killed before birth in Ireland for the first time. Is Fintan turning his hand to Swiftian irony? Those that are born should be grateful to have overcome that first gory hurdle I suppose.
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Post by assisi on Jan 21, 2019 14:38:39 GMT
I see Lord Fintan O Toole of D'Olier St had a column in his little paper about the future prospects of babies born this year in Ireland. Thanks to his paper in part those same babies may now be legally killed before birth in Ireland for the first time. Is Fintan turning his hand to Swiftian irony? Those that are born should be grateful to have overcome that first gory hurdle I suppose. Every time I hear the name Fintan O'Toole I think of the phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 21, 2019 15:15:51 GMT
I see Lord Fintan O Toole of D'Olier St had a column in his little paper about the future prospects of babies born this year in Ireland. Thanks to his paper in part those same babies may now be legally killed before birth in Ireland for the first time. Is Fintan turning his hand to Swiftian irony? Those that are born should be grateful to have overcome that first gory hurdle I suppose. Every time I hear the name Fintan O'Toole I think of the phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'. The thing about people like Fintan O'Toole is that they will acknowledge the reality of social alienation, the need for identity and community, even spiritual needs-- but their answer is always socialism. Everything would be OK if only we had socialism. Now, I'm not particularly right-wing economically, but I don't buy this idea that everybody would become socially and culturally progressive if only they had no economic frustrations. This seems to be the theory of Fintan O'Toole and Owen Jones and the like. And the economic transformation they are always holding out as the promised land, and the answer to all social problems and tensions, is completely illusory anyway.
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Post by assisi on Jan 22, 2019 10:38:20 GMT
Every time I hear the name Fintan O'Toole I think of the phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'. The thing about people like Fintan O'Toole is that they will acknowledge the reality of social alienation, the need for identity and community, even spiritual needs-- but their answer is always socialism. Everything would be OK if only we had socialism. Now, I'm not particularly right-wing economically, but I don't buy this idea that everybody would become socially and culturally progressive if only they had no economic frustrations. This seems to be the theory of Fintan O'Toole and Owen Jones and the like. And the economic transformation they are always holding out as the promised land, and the answer to all social problems and tensions, is completely illusory anyway. Regarding your second paragraph, if I was to attempt to cure the economic frustrations of the people in my street or town, by giving them all, say 50,000 Euro for the coming calendar year, would this even work? I can guarantee that there would be some individuals who would take their friends to Las Vegas, blow the 50,000 and return home with debts to pay to casinos. Those individuals are then unequal again. What does the socialist do, hand him another 50,000 (perhaps taken from other more prudent people) for him to repeat the process and blow it again? Similarly, there will also be a few proud souls who will steadfastly refuse money. They may say that they prefer their lives to be simple and don't want the burden and worry of extra money. They therefore remain unequal. In short Socialism may be a promising theory on paper, but it fails to understand and account for one key thing, human nature.
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Post by assisi on Jan 22, 2019 10:54:08 GMT
Every time I hear the name Fintan O'Toole I think of the phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic'. The thing about people like Fintan O'Toole is that they will acknowledge the reality of social alienation, the need for identity and community, even spiritual needs-- but their answer is always socialism. Everything would be OK if only we had socialism. Now, I'm not particularly right-wing economically, but I don't buy this idea that everybody would become socially and culturally progressive if only they had no economic frustrations. This seems to be the theory of Fintan O'Toole and Owen Jones and the like. And the economic transformation they are always holding out as the promised land, and the answer to all social problems and tensions, is completely illusory anyway. Fintan O'Toole and the Irish Times have been the vanguard killing off any meaningful institutions in Ireland. They see the Nation state as suspect, Christianity as no longer relevant, and don't mind killing a new generation of Irish children. There's really little else of significance for him to hang his ideas off. He's slowing sawing away at the branch he is sitting on. Personally, he has still a good job, will bring out a book every couple of years, is lauded by the liberal elite, but essentially is a destroyer rather than a builder.
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