Ecumenism

I think the main point that is being made in the video is both parties should be searching for Truth as opposed to a false union (Most protestants do this and unfortunately many Catholics since the 50s).
This leaves the question in my head can you have true dialogue (ecumenical) if the person doesn't accept objective truth?

I have mixed views on ecumenism. In Ireland it has been broadly positive in defusing some of the nastier pettier aspects of inter Church relations. Bishops like Conway and the two Dalys rarely get praise for not aiding the provos attempts to turn their terrorist campaign into a catholic versus Protestant war Holy war like the 1990s Balkans.They came under a lot of criticism for not wholeheartedly backing "our side" at the time and since.

Christians do share common ground with each other when it comes to defending family, human life and traditional values. Indeed Pope John Paul had alliances with Islam to twart Globalist agendas in the UN in the 1990s. It has often been pointed out religious conservatives have more in common than with their liberal co-religionists at times!

I do doubt the value of inter faith gatherings like Assisi however. Its a complete capitulation to indifferentism which is a far greater threat among Western christians than religious extremism. The recent reported indifference of Pope Francis towards an Anglican bishops conversion is a disturbing example of this tendency to minimise conversions.


In short I think Christians should be on friendly terms with each other, (with some healthy rivalry) and we should be good neighbours with everyone else but not pretend walls don't exist or are unnecessary.

Timothy Flanders says: ""The definition of dialogos that I give in my book is "an act of humility whereby two or more parties penetrate or subordinate themselves to the truth". And so this is an example of working through the truth, penetrating it, and then all parties subordinating themselves to it. Which is obviously in contrast to the modern false dialogue which is not concerned with truth." "

I think that "obviously" is very telling. It's so obvious to him that he doesn't argue it. He takes it for granted that 'modern false dialogue' is not concerned with truth. He doesn't quote any texts or statements to this effect. It's just obvious. It really feels like this discussion is occurring in an ideological bubble as the host doesn't challenge him.

They do mention the Joint Declaration on Justification between the Catholic Church and the Lutherans. I'm not committed enough to read the declaration, but the makers of this video seem upset that it doesn't go far enough. Personally, if St. John Paul II endorsed it, I trust it. It seems concerned with only one particular aspect of doctrine, justification.

I encountered a familiar theme, with commentators of this persuasion, where they seem more focused on Christendom than Christianity. They talk repeatedly about the need for Catholicism to be a common cult for society and that toleration of other religions is OK as long as those other religions "get with the Catholic programme." This seems a weird idea to me, considering how practicing Catholics are now a minority everywhere and can hardly be expected to call the shots. It seems like a retreat into fantasy.

We have no reason to believe Christendom will ever be revived. Surely our aim should be the salvation of souls rather than conquering cultures.

At one point, one of the speakers says that Catholicism was the only force which managed to overcome Islam, which isn't true-- the Mongol Empire also did this.

To return to the claim that modern ecumenism doesn't care about a truth, I did a search of the Vatican II document on ecumenism, Unitatis Redintegratio (which they criticize). "Truth" occurs eleven times and "true" occurs eight times. For instance: "Moreover, in ecumenical dialogue, Catholic theologians standing fast by the teaching of the Church and investigating the divine mysteries with the separated brethren must proceed with love for the truth, with charity, and with humility. When comparing doctrines with one another, they should remember that in Catholic doctrine there exists a "hierarchy" of truths, since they vary in their relation to the fundamental Christian faith. Thus the way will be opened by which through fraternal rivalry all will be stirred to a deeper understanding and a clearer presentation of the unfathomable riches of Christ." No obvious rejection of truth there.

A wise (young) priest once said to me " It's back to preaching using shamrocks time"!

It does seem to be the case that recent developments in the Church of England make ecumenical efforts more difficult. I think it's fair to say that they are moving away from historic Christian orthodoxy.

It should probably be noted that the current generation don't tend to memorise things in school the way we used to.

For example in secondary school we had to learn certain verses of poetry or Shakespeare off by heart to recite next day in English class. I remember well learning these verses or segments line by line.

Now the students are rarely if ever asked to memorise anything. That includes prayers. I'm sure that there are young Catholics who may not be able to recite the Our Father and Hail Mary by heart, the minimum one would expect.