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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 16, 2017 11:10:23 GMT
Interesting point about that Swiss canton, Roger.
Religious people have generally argued that the conflict in Northern Ireland was NOT religious but purely ethnic, in answer to secularists who call religion violent and divisive. But intellectual honesty demands we should look beyond apologetic strategies. Certainly the hunger strikes book I recently read argued there WAS a religious aspect to the conflict, even if it was at a deep level.
I'd like to say very clearly that I'm NOT thinking of people like you and Angelo when I complain about non-nationals in Ireland. I'm careful not to refer to anybody's life circumstances that they haven't already mentioned, but aside from anything else I think I can say fairly that both of you are actively defending the traditions and culture of this country. More so than most Irish people! And you are certainly not going to be recruited into the embittered, multicultural, subversive, anti-national, anti-host culture forces that many non-nationals will support either actively or passively.
I had a conversation with my father about this today. He was complaining about the immigrant influx at least fifteen years ago, at a time when I thought he was simply being xenophobic. I think he's been vindicated now. I asked him what he thought a reasonable presence of non-nationals would be. "About four per cent", he said. "By the way, that's what they have in Britain, and they have UKIP. Here, it's closer to sixteen per cent."
The question I always ask people who are (for want of a better term) pro-immigration is: "Is there any point at which you would consider it too much? Are you in favour of open borders?" And I've never actually asked this, but from now on I think I might: "Ten per cent? Twenty per cent? Thirty per cent? Forty per cent? What is too much? Is there too much? When does a country cease to be itself and become something else?" I can't believe a country is simply a zone on a map.
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Post by servantofthechief on Jul 16, 2017 11:21:13 GMT
The problem, Maolseachlann, is the pro-open borders people, by and large, either have not considered the possibility that there is such a thing as too much (whether they are magic-dirt believing libertarians, or just simply air headed bleeding hearts who run more on emotions than reason and just don't think too hard about things in general) or they know exactly what they are doing, will sneer at you and say 'No such thing.'
The implications are clear, these sorts of people enjoy the fact that they can operate hypocritically and they won't suffer repercussions because of it.
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Post by kj on Jul 16, 2017 12:28:57 GMT
The problem is that Ireland will only maintain its "lovely, friendly, welcoming" culture for so long. A tipping point will be reached where there will be a reaction. The amount of people who are openly hostile to Ireland's transformation is growing. Just look at the comments section on social media fora whenever there is a PC story, or an incident involving a non-national and you will see that more and more people are becoming frustrated. Robert Putnam, the author of "Bowling Alone", the celebrated study of social anomie in America has researched the topic and found that: "People living in ethnically diverse settings appear to 'hunker down,' that is, to pull in like a turtle," writes Putnam. They tend to "withdraw even from close friends, to expect the worst from their community and its leaders, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more but have less faith they can actually make a difference, and to huddle unhappily in front of the television." irishsavant.blogspot.com.es/2007/08/elect-new-people.htmlOn that note, while I have no problem, and am indeed happy to see integration happening, I am annoyed by the fact that the ultra-left Globalist Guardian uses our ancient game of hurling to push their social agenda and once again try and make Ireland seem like Backwardsville, the "former priest-ridden hole" etc etc. www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2017/jul/14/pitching-up-ancient-sports-for-children-in-irelands-most-ethnically-diverse-town |
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Post by servantofthechief on Jul 16, 2017 12:51:35 GMT
They'll never stop at it KJ.
The thing is, I agree there is increasing frustration and anger and there will be a backlash, the good, and bad news is that its going to be one not a lot of people are going to expect from Europeans, much less the Irish and, bear with me, I believe it will happen in the North first.
If there is ever anything like the shenanigans in UK with Muslim pedophile grooming gangs (call a spade a spade) or an attack like Cologne in Northern Ireland, it doesn't matter where abouts it is, Protestant or Catholic, its going to result in such a public and vicious backlash that it will likely make international headlines. I have my suspicious this sort of thing is already happening in places in the South, a lot of these suspiciously vicious murders can't all be blamed on the ongoing mafia war in Dublin, paramilitaries (who are usually more into punishment attacks where the person lives specifically to pass on a message and usually specialise in making bodies disappear for good rather than leaving them where they can be found), or a random spate of homegrown psychopaths. There is a savagery to some of these murders that seems alien in some respect I can't adequately pin down, but cannot confirm. We must never rule out homegrown psychopaths as the most likely cause but lets be real here, there's a reason the recent Gay pride parade had to be guarded with police and some military personnel in Dublin this year and it wasn't because the Christian Irish were going to harm them.
When it hits us, and its going to hit us, its going to hit us hard and fast, and the reaction will be similarly hard and fast. It has been that way throughout history it seems, the waves of History seem to hit Ireland's shores last, from the Black Plague to the reformation, but when they hit, they hit hardest and the reaction, usually, is just is much swifter, even if similar, to how others are going to react.
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Post by kj on Jul 16, 2017 13:03:47 GMT
I haven't been following domestic murder stories lately, so I can't offer an intelligent assessment. I would not be surprised if you are correct.
Of course we all know that if such things materialise, or if there is a terrorist attack, every weapon in the state and media armoury will be trotted out. I'll write some headlines we will be guaranteed to see from the usual suspects:
"This is the greatest test of Ireland's new maturity. We must not fail."
"Tolerance is the key."
"Ireland can set an example to Nationalist-ridden Europe" etc etc
It is all so drearily predictable. I lived in the UK for years, and that will be the model. As I have said here before, my greatest sadness and anger comes from the fact that we are rocketing towards becoming a miniature replica of that country with all of its associated social problems. And yet our own Fifth-columnists think this is a cause for celebration! Makes me ill.
"Taoiseach calls for calm as minorities fear backlash" etc etc
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 16, 2017 13:47:10 GMT
I do identify with almost everything jk and servantofthechief have said, but I always want to be honest. To me, it's not about terrorism, it's not about crime, it's simply the fact that I'm a nationalist and I want Ireland to be Irish. I want to be able to to make a generalisation about OUR culture, OUR history, OUR character, etc. without having to look over my shoulder constantly. I don't like much about John Major, but I like his description of the Britain he aspired to: "A nation at ease with itself". I don't think social and cultural bonds can be as fraternal or strong if there is a high degree of ethnic heterogeneity. The Putnam research jk cites simply seems like what you'd expect. I've lived most of my life in Ballymun, an area that's fairly rough, and-- to be fair and honest-- I've noticed that I'm a lot less uneasy around non-nationals than I am around Irish people. The scanger is a home-grown phenomenon. It's not like I've ever been beaten up (though someone did try to mug me once), I'm more talking about verbal harassment and people generally acting the idiot. I don't see that amongst immigrants, really. None of this is to doubt servantofthechief's theory, because you only have to look at the crime section to see that East Europeans seem over-represented there. I think this has as much to do with multiculturalism as immigration. We're always being lectured about how the Irish went to America, England, Australia, etc. Yes they did, but did they have this multiculturalist mentality whereby all cultures should be on an equal footing? America is a special case, but did Irish people in the UK ever forget that this was not their country? That they had their own country? The whole idea that someone walks off a plane and suddenly his traditions, history, culture, language etc. should be on an equal footing with the indigenous people puts immigration in a different light, the stakes are higher. I'm talking about things like this ad. Yes, there are black Irish people and I'm not questioning their Irishness, but the ad is obviously trying to make a very political point. There was a similar bus ad for an Irish census which showed a montage of all different faces, but there was a larger face formed out of them, one which had Chinese or Korean features. It feels like constant propaganda, and as jk points out, you can see the reaction on comments sections all over the internet. Attachments:
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 18, 2017 11:13:31 GMT
I wish I were finding time for this very interesting thread amongst others. But a quick comment to this Interesting point about that Swiss canton, Roger. Religious people have generally argued that the conflict in Northern Ireland was NOT religious but purely ethnic, in answer to secularists who call religion violent and divisive. But intellectual honesty demands we should look beyond apologetic strategies. Certainly the hunger strikes book I recently read argued there WAS a religious aspect to the conflict, even if it was at a deep level. This is very interesting. I think the operative word here may be "deep". That Swiss canton divided into French Catholic and French Protestant parts not really because of religion defined in the doctrinal or practicing sense, I suspect, but something at a deep, quite profound psychological level. And something similar may be at work with say the most atheist, Sinn Fein types say versus Unionists. I fumble for words. Perhaps it is partly ancestral ... all those practicing Catholic ancestors vs Protestant ancestors. Writing rapidly and fumbling for words, but it does seem to me that these ethnic tensions may rely more on a persistent ULTIMATELY religious psychology, if not practice, than the politically correct want to admit, that is on how religion has shaped ethnic groups over generations. And what I am fumbling to get at here may speak to something that explains the tensions in Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia and that French-Swiss Canton. SaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSave |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 18, 2017 11:18:01 GMT
I can appreciate the argument that those legacies survive, but I suppose the question is how much longer they will outlive active practice of the religion.
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Post by kj on Jul 20, 2017 12:51:55 GMT
So I just caught the news on the radio, and from what I could make out, the Seanad has passed a bill that will allow refugees to bring their parents and extended family to Ireland, whereas previously it had just been spouses and kids. Assuming I heard right and assuming this bill will now be passed in the Dail, this will lead to yet another influx of people into the country who have absolutely nothing to do with Ireland and Irish culture. For each refugee, multiply by 3 or 4.
Am I a racist to be troubled by this development?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 20, 2017 12:54:37 GMT
No.
Ireland is a long, long way from any war-torn countries. I'm not sure how they find their way here.
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Post by Stephen on Jul 20, 2017 12:56:02 GMT
Of course, it is not racist. The Senators should be shot for treason (I'm not being literal  ). Islam is massing on the periphery and the cultural Marxists, relativists, feminists and progressives are all throwing open the doors for the destruction of western Civilisation. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 20, 2017 13:00:00 GMT
I do think we should give refuge to genuine refugees, but it is has to be proportionate to our size and I think refugees should be accommodated as close to their home as possible. I also think the never-ending appeal system has to stop. I also wish the refugee industry in Ireland was dismantled.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Feb 16, 2018 11:17:10 GMT
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Post by cato on Feb 16, 2018 12:07:45 GMT
And this huge increase to date and in the future has no effect whatsover on hospital waiting lists , social welfare costs , huge rent increases and homelessness rates? It is absolutely infuriating that no statistics are published into the costs of the most radical population importation increase in Irish history. Needless to say no political party will dream of raising this issue in public. Another taboo topic as it doesn't upset the Dublin 4 elites. |
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Post by servantofthechief on Feb 18, 2018 11:39:38 GMT
I am going to withhold my language but this was inevitable, our political class will happily drown us in third world immigrants like is happening in other parts of Europe. They are already being referred to as 'New Irish'. How long until they are actively going to try to replace the native Irish with a dependant immigrant class which has happened literally everywhere that's had mass immigration? |
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