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Post by cato on Oct 25, 2018 19:54:33 GMT
According to my rough calculations a third of the population rejected the governments Repeal campaign. Two days ago a mere 12 TDs voted against the Abortion bill's second reading. There are 158 TDs in total . It is literally pathetic that the No vote in Dail Eireann was 7.6%
After the the scale of the pro abortion majority the wider pro life movement would appear to have gone into shock. Although it may be evitable that we will see a significantly liberalised abortion law there is no reason why we should make it easy for Simon Harris to steam roller his legislation through. A recent drink driving limit law was held up for over a 1000 days by objecting TDs.
Objecting to offensive legislation is part and parcel of the democratic process. No one gave Harris and Co a blank check to rush this through or to have it enshrined in law by January 2019.
The chair of the Referendum Commission ( the impartial arbitrator of the campaign) said the vote was to remove the 8th amendment and not for the proposed new law. Currently the Dail/Senate have the power to pass any or no abortion legislation. This bill should be resisted for as long as possible . That is normal parliamentary procedure. This bill is the most shameful but important law ever before an Irish parliament. Lives are at stake.
Of the 12 No voters most were independents, 2 were Sinn Fein and only 2 were Fianna Fail despite that parties pro life position. Why are the others sitting idly by on such a vital crucial issue?
We can be certain our hard core liberal/leftists would not have thrown in the towel if they had faced a similar electoral disaster.
Similarly over the summer two private citizens bravely took out legal challenges to the process. Surely a proper challenge to the one sided campaign could have been mounted by the pro life campaign. It may have failed but surely it should have been considered. It may have been but if so I am unaware of it.
On this greatest of constitutional issues why has resistence utterly crumbled? This is a deliberate ploy to destroy the morale of those who believe in protecting human life by an arrogant pro abortion campaign. Why are we going along with it?
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Post by cato on Oct 25, 2018 20:52:54 GMT
I couldn't watch the coverage on the 26th and I made sure I had no access to alcohol! It was devastating and I couldn't cope with being utterly crushed on top of this terrible terrible decision of my fellow citizens.
I think the Repeal campaign are using the shock and awe atmosphere to ram this through before doubts or second thoughts emerge. The present proposed conscience provision will end up in the courts and is simply designed to normalise abortion and to intimidate pro life doctors and hospital staff. It is more extreme than the practice in other similar European states. It is also unnecessary even if you want liberal provision.
Similarly the law on restricting protests outside hospitals is open to challenge. A similar law was recently rejected in the UK. Our government seems blind to the concept of clashing rights. Other important constitutional rights are at risk also. This bill will end up being challenged in the courts if TDs don't do their job prudently and calmly.
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Post by Séamus on Oct 27, 2018 4:21:01 GMT
I must admit that I found the referendum defeat so devastating, I have found it hard to follow the progress of the abortion bill. Sínead O'Connor has reportedly embraced Islam. Has catholic Ireland become too liberal for her or is it far too depressing to find that you're now part of the majority? |
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Post by assisi on Oct 27, 2018 13:04:05 GMT
I must admit that I found the referendum defeat so devastating, I have found it hard to follow the progress of the abortion bill. Sínead O'Connor has reportedly embraced Islam. Has catholic Ireland become too liberal for her or is it far too depressing to find that you're now part of the majority? Sinead, at this point in her life, is more to be pitied than anything else. Not long ago she was considering a job working with the dying in a hospice. Now it is Islam. As far as I know she is estranged from many of her family and friends and has been in a bad place for a long time. I wouldn't read too much into her conversion. It's a cry for attention from a troubled lady. |
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Post by cato on Nov 10, 2018 17:36:08 GMT
The Pro life campaign have called on No voters in May to boycott Fianna Fail over its shabby refusal to put pressure on the government.
I fear this is meaningless gesture politics. I deplore the decision by Micheal Martin and his liberal cronies to undermine the party's pro life stance but boycotting Fianna Fail means accepting the current reality and abandoning the big party that has large numbers of members uneasy about the new laws.
In order to eventually restore a pro life culture we need to be careful about destroying the little influence we have at present. In the medium term we will need a party that is open to modify and restrict the hastly rushed through and extreme Harris Bill. I am thinking here of fighting for freedom of religious conscience for doctors and all staff who may have to facilitate abortions.
I do believe restrictions on conscience and protest will hopefully be struck down by European courts. The PC Irish system is firmly under the thumb of the political establishment and will not defend basic personal liberties. Our new law is basically a standard liberal European abortion regime with restricted rights for medical staff.
The strategy of the government based on advice of their feminist advisors is to crush their opponents, destroy their morale and destigmitise abortion by turning it into a normal medical procedure. The effort to force GPs to take part in this new law is a choice to destroy or at least restrict and isolate the pro life viewpoint.
It is vindictive in the extreme and unnecessary even from a pro choice perspective.
If we abandon Fianna Fail and I mean pro life candidates here, where do we go to?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 10, 2018 17:56:10 GMT
I completely agree, Cato. Taking refuge in the politics of protest is a waste of time and energy. Just look at the fortunes of the Christian Solidarity Party and other socially conservative microparties. Look at the massive rallies that the pro-life movement organised year upon year, and that in the end availed us nothing. It's all about influence and having a voice. If there is any hope for the prolife movement in Ireland, other than persuading individual women and fathers not to abort, it's surely FF.
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Post by cato on Nov 13, 2018 12:03:37 GMT
Hospitals in Cavan, Kilkenny and Letterkenny have said they will not carry out abortions. This is based on practical objections of resources and safety concerns as well as more fundamental conscience grounds. Some people have the courage to resist. Thank God for their courage. We need more people like them to stand up to the bullies that run our state.
People may end up being persecuted by that state losing their jobs and going to jail over this. And this is what the great sophisticated Irish electorate voted for by a 2/3s majority for.
If this does happen we may hopefully see a new generation who will peacefully resist this cruel and unjust law forcing a life preserving profession to facilitate killing.
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Post by cato on Nov 16, 2018 17:11:17 GMT
It is interesting how many misleading promises/statements Minister for health made to the great Irish public prior to last Mays referendum.
No mention abortions would be surgical procedures. All discussion was on GP lead services involving pills.
No discussions with GP associations around opt outs until after the law is passed. This is incredibly arrogant.
No mention tax payers would have to fund all "Free" abortions. This is of course targeting poorer people who may end up costing the state money in additional benefits. The net loss in eliminating a future citizen is never considered .The well off have no need of free reproductive health.
Last night on RTE's Drivetime radio show master of the Rotunda hospital Professor Malone gave a revealing interview first discussing their success in saving premature babies lives. He went on to announce they were also a " hospital of choice " and would be aborting 15 a week , 60 a month and between 700-800 a year!
This was not mentioned by the soft spoken smiling repealers during the so called debate. I have seen no reaction to Malone's remarks.
Indeed it is striking how little coverage and reaction recent developments are getting in mainstream media. It seems like a case of slip this all in under the radar as quickly as possible thanks to a compliant media and a non existent resistence.
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Post by Séamus on Nov 18, 2018 7:26:32 GMT
Ki It is interesting how many misleading promises/statements Minister for health made to the great Irish public prior to last Mays referendum. No mention abortions would be surgical procedures. All discussion was on GP lead services involving pills. No discussions with GP associations around opt outs until after the law is passed. This is incredibly arrogant. No mention tax payers would have to fund all "Free" abortions. This is of course targeting poorer people who may end up costing the state money in additional benefits. The net loss in eliminating a future citizen is never considered .The well off have no need of free reproductive health. Last night on RTE's Drivetime radio show master of the Rotunda hospital Professor Malone gave a revealing interview first discussing their success in saving premature babies lives. He went on to announce they were also a " hospital of choice " and would be aborting 15 a week , 60 a month and between 700-800 a year! This was not mentioned by the soft spoken smiling repealers during the so called debate. I have seen no reaction to Malone's remarks. Indeed it is striking how little coverage and reaction recent developments are getting in mainstream media. It seems like a case of slip this all in under the radar as quickly as possible thanks to a compliant media and a non existent resistence. It's almost like Tolkien's Númenóreans in Silmarillion becoming reality, seduced by Sauron until the majority are willing even to perform human sacrifice in the temple he erected to the story's fictional devil. Not that many Western nations are any better, but the parallel is seen more clearly in places like Ireland and Central America(where similar things are taking place) I remember pro-abortion doctors from the Rotunda being vocal going back to the 1990s referendum (and also one lady mentioning praying in St Martin dePorres chapel because of it's proximity. St Martin was himself a 'crisis pregnancy', although I'm not sure that she saw the significance of that.) |
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Post by cato on Dec 5, 2018 20:36:12 GMT
As we near the final stages in the Harris abortion bill two things strike me. One is the completely fanatical way the health minister dismisses all pro life ammendments while almost apologising at not being able to accept radical left wing attempts to liberalise even further. His nasty sneering style and accusing pro life TDs of being women haters shows how debased and extreme Irish politics have become.
The resistence to the government , most of Fianna Fail(ironically the only formal pro life in Dail Eireann), Sinn Fein and all the hard left is coming from around half a dozen TDs - Mattie Mc Grath , the two Healy Raes , Peader Toibin and Carol Nolan both former Sinn Feiners have fulfilled the thankless task of resisting this wicked new law and enduring insult and ridicule. They are truly brave souls. One day they will be quoted when people begin to question why the Irish people voted to allow a cruel and brutal law that targeted our greatest and most precious asset.
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Post by cato on Dec 31, 2018 21:00:00 GMT
As a postscript to this saddest of stories from 2018 the health minister has announced this evening 165 GPs will take part in his new abortion regime. Given there are 2500 odd GPs in the state it is significant that approximately 93% of GPs are not taking part.
This is good news as part of the reason for this GP led service was to normalise abortion as a normal health service. GPs will come under pressure to conform but there is strenght in numbers if people stick together .Today is the end of an era when the unborn were given legal protection from deliberate destruction. Tomorrow we step into a swamp of death and cruelty posing as caring compassion. God help us all.
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Post by cato on Jan 4, 2019 14:03:27 GMT
I see pro life protesters in Galway yesterday were picketing a GP they claim is taking part in providing chemical abortions under the new law. The government have promised to ban peaceful protests. This campaign may be moving onto new territory.
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Post by Séamus on Jan 7, 2019 5:41:27 GMT
As a postscript to this saddest of stories from 2018 the health minister has announced this evening 165 GPs will take part in his new abortion regime. Given there are 2500 odd GPs in the state it is significant that approximately 93% of GPs are not taking part. This is good news as part of the reason for this GP led service was to normalise abortion as a normal health service. GPs will come under pressure to conform....etc.... Perhaps it will become the thing that doctors will become more conscientious than the general population; I've heard of a possible trend elsewhere. At any rate, I read today that 64 Canadian palliative care experts signed an article in (a presumedly international magazine) WORLD MEDICAL JOURNAL last September, one quotation was "many of us feel so strongly that we may be forced to emigrate or to withdraw from the practice altogether...our colleagues in other countries thus need to be aware that the euthanasia assisted suicide regime in Canada in one of the most radical". More significant was that the letter itself was written by a doctor heavily involved in palliative care who indentified himself as such, speaking for neither church nor pro-life movements. |
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Post by Tomas on Apr 29, 2020 20:34:33 GMT
Here is an interesting article from the US on why the pro-life movement fails. Claiming that the strong Party frame is a problem - both onesided and compromised, making it perpetually impossible to both have and reject the cake - the author suggests that the protestant roots of modern capitalism goes a long way to see that the otherwise resourceful struggle never will reach to its goal within the current system ("Working within the framework of the Republican party will never end abortion because at the end of the day it is the same world that creates the demand for abortion."). When individualism replace family, the battle got lost. athanasiuscm.org/2014/07/18/the-failure-of-the-pro-life-movement/ |
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Post by cato on May 28, 2020 14:14:56 GMT
A Canadian pro-life writer is due to publish a book Patriots on the history of the 8th Amendment and the lives saved by it. Ironically the evangelist for Abortion reform and Minister for health Simon Harris has justified his current role in combating Covid as being all about saving lives. Except for those in nursing homes. Obviously.
Most books that cover the Irish experience of abortion are pro choice so this book is welcome if only to redress the imbalance. The fact the author is foreign will give a sense of perspective but it is sad no Irish academic would take on this role.
The second anniversary of the infamous Repeal referendum occurred this week. There are no official statistics yet but Peadar Toibin has claimed there were an extra 10,000 deaths due to Repeal since abortion legalisation.
Proponents of reform denied the abortion rate would rise. As far as I can see no mainstream news carried this story. Sweeping unpleasantries under the carpet hasn't gone away. It's just got more gory and more hypocritical.
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