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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 13, 2017 21:57:40 GMT
Well, that's it. Enough is enough, I have had it. I regret to inform everyone that I am now walking away from this board as I feel that it is heading in a direction that I am dismayed at and I can no longer associate myself with. I am referring not merely to the recent discourse on Muslims, I am referring to the way in which the alt-right, a movement with neo-pagan influences that has racism (up to and including eugenics), and in many cases misogyny at its core, is being given qualified support by several posters here (I do appreciate that these same posters have misgivings about it, but surely that is all the more reason to avoid it like the plague). Many here, while understandably aggrieved that much of the political correctness that pervades Irish life, have now gone to the other extreme and have apparently adopted a "no enemies to the right" approach, which is utterly myopic given that many alt-rightists view Christianity as responsible for political correctness.
This is not a decision that I make lightly, but I do think that I have to take a stand before things get even worse. I will certainly consider rejoining if there is a change in attitude towards the topics that I have mentioned, but for now things have gone so bad that to continue to post here could be seen as complicity. Therefore, with the exception of replies to this thread, that is all from me for the foreseeable future. May God bless you all.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 13, 2017 22:21:19 GMT
God bless you too, and I hope you do come back at some stage. Your perspective is valued.
Perhaps, if the board continues to grow, there will be enough of a "spread" of perspectives to make you feel more comfortable being involved, balancing out the tendencies you dislike. I personally would like to see a wide range of viewpoints represented; that was my whole conception.
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Post by servantofthechief on Jun 14, 2017 2:17:05 GMT
God bless you, and I beg your forgiveness if my posts in anyway caused you to feel as if you cannot continue to contribute here. I do not support the alt right, qualified or otherwise but rather view them as a useful tool in breaking the liberal stranglehold around public discourse if nothing else. If for no other reason than because things have gotten so bad that civilized discourse is now effectively impossible anyway, and the only peaceful means left is to shock them into revealing their hypocrisy. The bad ideas of the Alt Right will die off in time (and in some cases are doing so already) because bad ideas rarely survive the light of free speech just look at how desperate the left is to control it afterall. I second Maolseachlann's sentiments and hope you come back when the board grows and has a wider spread of perspectives.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jun 14, 2017 9:25:22 GMT
Young Ireland, can't easily find words right now. But I respect your integrity and your struggle. I think I haven't seen all the posts you allude to as I'm having trouble keeping up with the board right now.
But I am definitely struggling with some of the same issues in many places on the web. And yet I feel ever more the tyranny of political correctness or "liberal stranglehold'" as servantofthe chief puts it is SO terrible, more and more terrible the more I look at it, that I want to see dialogue between everyone who feels this tyranny. And I salute this board for creating that dialogue. At the same time, there is certainly real danger of falling into other forms of tyranny.
My words are poor now - but you will be missed and I do hope you can find a way to come back. Of course, you yourself being here creates that "wider perspective" and you might want to think of this as an act of charity rather than "complicity" as you put it.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 14, 2017 9:32:22 GMT
I can understand Young Ireland's stance as I myself stopped posting on a forum because I didn't want to be associated with certain views common on it. It's a difficult call. On the one hand, there is the importance of free speech, open discussion, and engaging with viewpoints you disagree with. One the other hand, yes, sometimes there is a line where you say, "These views are so contrary to my beliefs, I don't even want to give them the time of day". So I do respect his scruples.
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 14, 2017 9:36:32 GMT
Well, that's it. Enough is enough, I have had it. I regret to inform everyone that I am now walking away from this board as I feel that it is heading in a direction that I am dismayed at and I can no longer associate myself with. I am referring not merely to the recent discourse on Muslims, I am referring to the way in which the alt-right, a movement with neo-pagan influences that has racism (up to and including eugenics), and in many cases misogyny at its core, is being given qualified support by several posters here (I do appreciate that these same posters have misgivings about it, but surely that is all the more reason to avoid it like the plague). Many here, while understandably aggrieved that much of the political correctness that pervades Irish life, have now gone to the other extreme and have apparently adopted a "no enemies to the right" approach, which is utterly myopic given that many alt-rightists view Christianity as responsible for political correctness. This is not a decision that I make lightly, but I do think that I have to take a stand before things get even worse. I will certainly consider rejoining if there is a change in attitude towards the topics that I have mentioned, but for now things have gone so bad that to continue to post here could be seen as complicity. Therefore, with the exception of replies to this thread, that is all from me for the foreseeable future. May God bless you all. I agree with you about the dangers of the Alt-Right. I have spoken about them elsewhere on this board. They are controlled opposition and fake conservatives. They are anti-Christian and anti-family, just like the Leftists they claim to oppose. As with all controlled opposition movements, the Alt-Right is very seductive; arguably 90% of what the Alt-Right say is correct; the 10% that is poison gets diluted by that overpowering truth, and people are misled. A Catholic friend of mine in the US writes eloquently on the dangers of the Alt-Right. We have been discussing this subject (Cultural Marxism and what to do about it, including the controlled opposition forces that constitute the Alt-Right) via email for a few years and, thankfully, he finally started a blog last year. Please familiarise with it: nightwind777.blogspot.ie/2017/06/southern-baptists-move-against-fake.htmlAt present there is no conservative, counter-revolutionary presence in Ireland. Unfortunately, many people of good will who know something is wrong with our country have been pulled into the Alt-Right because traditional conservatism is so weak. If you read the Irish Savant or Politicalirish.com you will see that many Irish people of good will - particularly young men - are being pulled into the Alt-right unwittingly because there is a vacuum. Malachy's objective here is to establish such a counter-revolutionary presence. I have attempted to quash the anti-Christian Alt-Right ideas when I see them on this board, and so have several others, keeping in mind Malachy's desire for this to be a big tent where ideas are debated. It's not always easy to define where the line gets crossed. The enemy wears many masks. It is only through our commitment to truth that we are able to recognise these masks. Thanks to Malachy for starting this forum which is centered on the truth, and for his steady hand. It will take time to build and there will be teething issues. If conservatives don't pull together we are going to be crushed by the twin anti-Christian, neo-Fascist forces of Secularist-Materialism (the Far Left, currently controlling the narrative in Ireland) and their controlled opposition neo-pagan counterpart, the Far Right (currently on the rise in Ireland, and drawing in many people of good will). At present you and I both know it is the only show in town - I hope you will reconsider your role and bring likeminded people over here rather than boycott it. If Irish conservatives do not pull together the rest is silence.
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Post by servantofthechief on Jun 14, 2017 15:07:57 GMT
The racialism of the alt right is what initially put me off of it, but I will admit, it is dangerously seductive to young men who have grown up in a society that maligns them culturally and racially (less so in Ireland racially since we don't have the same baggage other countries do, so I don't think white shaming is as effective here because it literally does't register with most people. Its why people also go to the 'we're a nation of emmigrants' narrative to justify dismissing Irish culture and to shame us into silence whenever we say one bit of scepticism regarding the migrant crises going on).
I said this last year to my friend after my initial research into the alt right and what it is: "It is a monster created in the image of the SJWs and progressive left." and everything that that implies. Right down to the phenomena and scourge that is ideological purity spiralling where the more extreme elements turn on eachother for not being ideologically pure enough. Which the left does regularly, and more efficiently. The racialism of the alt right is a direct consequence of the timidity the rest of us have had with regards to the topics of race and how we let the left essentially make it verbotten for anyone to discuss race issues in any other terms or context, other than what the left sets as the guiding rules and standards. (for obvious political advantages, this is how they effectively cowed the American and European conservative coalitions into silence and forcing them to turn on their own for fear of being labelled 'racist') for decades this worked in the media and it worked in forcing these issues into hiding on the internet.
I am showing my age and misspent youth here by revealing that in the 2000s, the internet was effectively a wild west and free speech, for better or for worse, more or less reigned supreme with each individual forum being effectively a little anarchic fiefdom ruled by despotic admins. There was a LOT of nazi jokes being tossed around haphazardly 'for the lulz', specifically because it was forbidden to talk like that, even amongst friends, in public spaces in real life. But there was rarely or really never the kind of racialism or race hatred I have seen on the alt right now back then. I think it has to do with the effective psychological closing down of the internet with political correctness forcing more and more people to congregate in more and more numbers in smaller and smaller spaces, we effectively forced resentment and bad ideas to congeal and congregate. As with all powderkegs, sooner or later it will explode, and the recent spasm of SJWs taking over cultural engines to propagate their own filth which prompted anti-progressive, big-tent rebellions (Gamergate, Sad Puppies for sci fi and fantasy novels and the Hugo awards, etc) more or less gave the alt-right the momentum it needed to get to the position it now has. And then Hillary Clinton had to open her big mouth.
The real problem with the alt right, and part of the reason why its fascinating to study, is it actually is a big tent catch-all term in its own right. Its full of atheists and neo-pagans, true, there are a lot of them. But there's also a bizarre amount of right wing Christians, Catholic and Orthodox alike (though I am sceptical of those ones for other reasons) and then you have the same Christians who are almost indistinguishable from the alt-right in what they talk about but refuse to be associated with them. And this is not including the so called 'Alt Light' which is the emerging anti-establishment conservative in the United States which, unfortunately, is full of what is known as civic-nationalists who, if they are not careful, will end up exactly like the neocon sheep and the Tea partiers before them. But I could go on for hours about these topics.
The point I am getting at here, is that the alt-right, for better or for worse, is a thing we as conservatives, reactionaries and right wingers are simply going to have to deal with until it inevitably runs out of steam. The racialism is uncomfortable and disgusting, but it will force the more moderate people to finally take an honest and objective look at race issues and the racialization of politics by the left, in which case we can finally, finally reject racialism as a political force by delegitimising the left's monopolization of it by literally ignoring their shaming tactics by discussing it openly in a free speech forum, and rejecting the racialism of the extreme elements of the alt right. We could very well be looking at the death throes of the right-left dichotemy in our lifetimes, which I believe will be an amazingly liberating thing.
As for the societal breakdown, I actually do believe the alt-right is on to something there and its something I've been observing being a real possibility for many years now. I just don't think it'll be a race war (though there will definitely be ethnic conflict in some areas, this is unavoidable. Keep your eyes on South Africa, and the fate of the white farmers, the Boers), but rather religious and nationalistic. A bunch of sporadic civil wars in Europe between nationalists and government forces which could easily splinter and become disasterous as well as a rising Islamist Turkey on top of the present threat of Islam in our home countries here in Europe. Its avoidable, we're still in a period where it can be avoided peacefully and without bloodshed I feel, but only if radical action is taken. We each need a Trump of our own and that Trump needs as free a hand as possible.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 14, 2017 16:05:29 GMT
I am showing my age and misspent youth here by revealing that in the 2000s, the internet was effectively a wild west and free speech, for better or for worse, more or less reigned supreme with each individual forum being effectively a little anarchic fiefdom ruled by despotic admins Hey, I like the sound of that...
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 14, 2017 16:07:53 GMT
And this is not including the so called 'Alt Light' which is the emerging anti-establishment conservative in the United States which, unfortunately, is full of what is known as civic-nationalists who, if they are not careful, will end up exactly like the neocon sheep and the Tea partiers before them. But I could go on for hours about these topics Well I, for one, would be interested....
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Post by seangladium on Jun 14, 2017 18:18:40 GMT
I have to admit I am somewhat ignorant on the history behind the "alt-right" movement. The first time I heard the term used was shortly after the election of Trump, and I had assumed it was just a catch-all term used by leftists to malign and marginalize their opponents. Are people actually now referring to themselves by this term? Additionally, I am now hearing the term "alt-left" used by some of the conservative media in the United States, but I am not sure what that exactly means either except as a reaction to the "alt-right" expression used by the left.
I personally do not care what anyone's race happens to be and what their actual beliefs may be are much more important to me. I view myself as a Catholic first and foremost before any consideration of national or personal allegiances. While I tolerate those of other religions and atheist/agnostic beliefs and try to treat them with respect as much as possible, I do hope and pray for their eventual conversion to Catholicism as I firmly believe that to be the Truth or I wouldn't be one. Also, I never understood the association with Christians as somehow being white exclusively and other religions as belonging to solely minority races. For instance, I deeply admire many of the priests and prelates of African origin (Cardinal Sarah eminently comes to mind among others) and look to them with great hope to uphold orthodoxy and pro-family and pro-life values. Additionally, I am tired of the accusations by the left of racism on the right which just seems to be a tactic to stifle freedom of expression. I am also annoyed by the apparent discrimination against whites by some people, but that has never compelled me to call for retaliation as that would be wrong. I also dislike group identity as I think this is a common tactic to control and marginalize people, and I much prefer viewing people as individuals and judging only their individual actions. On the other hand, I do not think of all religions and beliefs as being equal or compatible with all societies and careful consideration must therefore be given when national policies are considered in order to provide for the common good of that particular society.
Like others said above, I enjoyed reading Young Ireland's posts and I was sad to see that they left the forum as I do not mind reading all view points even if they disagreed with my own on certain topics of discussion. I am still learning each and every day and trying to correct my own faults. If I gave the wrong impression about myself that led to misunderstandings, then I would also like to add my own apology. And lastly, thank you to our host Maolsheachlann for allowing all view points and encouraging posters to engage each other with respect as I do not care for some other forums that frequently engage in nastiness and personal attacks unlike this one.
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Goodbye
Jun 14, 2017 18:36:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 14, 2017 18:36:13 GMT
Thank you. That is exactly what I'm trying to do.
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 14, 2017 21:59:32 GMT
Just to leave a quick note that I am heartened by the response of everyone here, and I am considering returning to the board. In any case, I will respond in more detail tomorrow.
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 19, 2017 12:37:14 GMT
Just to leave a quick note that I am heartened by the response of everyone here, and I am considering returning to the board. In any case, I will respond in more detail tomorrow. Hope to see you back here soon, Young Ireland.
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Post by kj on Oct 7, 2017 18:01:46 GMT
The Alt-Right are degenerate by and large, but given that the mainstream is so dominant and intolerant, something like them was almost inevitable.
Personally I loathe their anti-semitism and racism. I would not want to be at their mercy.
Plus many if not most are intellectual dunderheads.
My only hope is that they indirectly encourage others of a more serious bent to get their act together.
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angelo
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by angelo on Oct 7, 2017 19:54:25 GMT
Having mulled things over, and being heartened by Maolsheachlann's recent blog post which can be found here: irishpapist.blogspot.ie/2017/10/ruminations.html#comment-formI have decided to return to the board. That doesn't mean that I agree with everything that is posted here, but I do think that things have cooled down here to an extent that contributing will be worthwhile again. Welcome back. Nobody here agrees with everything that is posted. This is a discussion forum, not a religion or a political group. You can disagree with everything you read here and still make your contribution. I am glad you're back, we need more voices and more diversity.
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