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Post by Antaine on May 31, 2020 1:25:22 GMT
So I made the mistake of visiting twitter today, and clicked on the trending topic "The Irish." Now, when you think of "racist" and "white supremacist" countries, you wouldn't usually imagine a place as innocuous as Ireland. But apparently we are. The trend I clicked on was for several tweets mentioning "the Irish", but within the last 24 hours there were several that were all about Ireland, and its apparent racism problem. As someone who doesn't actually use twitter, maybe this is actually business as usual, and if anyone here uses it then let me know. But if not, what does this say about the direction this country is headed in?
With all that's going on in the US, it seems that everyone is trying to jump on the Black Lives Matter bandwagon. Slowly but surely, more states are joining in the "protest" that's happening, and now there are even protesters in Canada over a black woman falling from an apartment, with police stating she jumped but others believing she was pushed. In regards to this country, the big topics were about:
* "non-white Irish" not being represented in things like journalism and music
* the "Irish slaves myth" which "minimised the experiences of people of colour" (paraphrased)
* and general comments about non-white people experiencing racism in Ireland, and how we are not doing enough to listen to them, therefore are "part of the problem"
* Irish people are white, so can't experience racism
In one particular incident, a girl talked about how her complaining about how "racist" Ireland was got her "go back where you came from then" type rebuttals, to which she replied "I'm from here lol." The irony wasn't lost on me that she happily displayed a Nigerian flag in her name along with the Irish flag. Doesn't seem like someone really confident that they are "from here." In fact, a lot of the people aggressively complaining about Ireland seemed to do this - the Irish flag next to the flag of the country I assume their family's come from. While I don't doubt people have experienced racism in Ireland, I think we all know what's going on here. As far as I'm concerned, this is merely people testing the waters, trying to push boundaries, to see how far they can get away with the intellectual prostitution that is victim hood culture. People see what's happening in the US, and desperate for that kind of excitement and glory-seeking, they are actually minimising our experiences as a people, and I sincerely believe they desire to be seen as maltreated here as blacks supposedly are in the US.
Honestly, with everything that's happened in the last few years, and now with everything that's going on in the US, I am utterly jaded on the topic of race relations. Can people of different races (in large numbers) even live together in peace anymore? Or do we all have to be segregated for our own sanity? People in Ireland and the West in general were told immigration would be good for us, and yet it's now apparently come back to bite us. Contrary to what people might think, I actually didn't have a problem with people coming into this country under a controlled form of immigration; but if that kindness and welcoming is going to be met with complaints and criticism about how we're not bending over backwards fast enough, is it really worth it? Is this really making Ireland a better place to live?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 31, 2020 9:30:07 GMT
It's very tiresome. It seems that a lot of people love the idea of racism and even want to will it into being where necessary. It's bizarre.
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Post by hilary on May 31, 2020 12:40:30 GMT
It's a pity too that you have to turn everything you hear on mainstream media on its head to try to find out what the truth is. If there was balance we wouldn't need a correction but the correction when it comes might be extreme.
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Post by cato on May 31, 2020 20:19:58 GMT
I work with a lot of foreign nationals and have resumed the old Irish habit of asking where are you from. Recently a young lady from Poland seemed very taken aback when I asked her about her origins. I had no problem telling her I was from Ireland when she asked me.
Later I got into a discussion with a Nigerian about the bible. (It's a long story) She had no problem asking me whether I was a Christian. For the first time in life I witnessed publically to my Christian identity. Mind you I may not have been the sort of Christian she had in Mind! I do think Irish Catholics will need to become more overt without becoming holier than thou types in future.
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Post by Antaine on Jun 1, 2020 23:09:35 GMT
So yeah, apparently all of this is now in Dublin. A horde of dumbass college-age kids protesting George Floyd, or racism in Ireland, or whatever excuse they pull out their rears as you press them. Black Lives Matter is a black supremacist organisation. I have known about this group since they first formed, and can give examples of their racist beliefs. There are very few times I have felt truly disgusted by my own country and its people. Today is one of those days. Irish people are disgustingly weak and desperate to pander to any and everyone who will pat them on the head. This is utterly pathetic.
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Post by Antaine on Jun 1, 2020 23:17:27 GMT
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the protesters were all on top of each other. Most wearing masks, but still on top of each other. So the lockdown's over?
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 2, 2020 5:19:38 GMT
So yeah, apparently all of this is now in Dublin. A horde of dumbass college-age kids protesting George Floyd, or racism in Ireland, or whatever excuse they pull out their rears as you press them. Black Lives Matter is a black supremacist organisation. I have known about this group since they first formed, and can give examples of their racist beliefs. There are very few times I have felt truly disgusted by my own country and its people. Today is one of those days. Irish people are disgustingly weak and desperate to pander to any and everyone who will pat them on the head. This is utterly pathetic. Would you have the same reaction if it was a white nationalist protest? (For what it's worth, I think the protest was imprudent in the middle of a pandemic, but the issues raised are certainly valid.) |
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Post by Antaine on Jun 2, 2020 12:31:16 GMT
Ah, Young Ireland, wasting no time flying in with the accusations.
Young Ireland, feel free to say what you want, but I will not be engaging with you. The last 3 times I did so were a waste that showed you to be a disgusting and disingenuous excuse for a debater, constantly arguing in bad faith, making stupid comparisons, ignoring rebuttals only to repeat the same points some time later. You are genuinely one of the vilest people I've had the misfortune of talking to, so I'll save myself to trouble. Unsurprising to see you so apathetic towards the racist views of BLM.
And if anyone thinks black people in the US are treated disproportionately bad, you might want to start looking at statistics about crime and race in the US.
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Post by assisi on Jun 2, 2020 14:36:43 GMT
So yeah, apparently all of this is now in Dublin. A horde of dumbass college-age kids protesting George Floyd, or racism in Ireland, or whatever excuse they pull out their rears as you press them. Black Lives Matter is a black supremacist organisation. I have known about this group since they first formed, and can give examples of their racist beliefs. There are very few times I have felt truly disgusted by my own country and its people. Today is one of those days. Irish people are disgustingly weak and desperate to pander to any and everyone who will pat them on the head. This is utterly pathetic. Would you have the same reaction if it was a white nationalist protest? (For what it's worth, I think the protest was imprudent in the middle of a pandemic, but the issues raised are certainly valid.) The big picture is simple. Progressives, Liberals, Marxists, Globalists, whatever you want to call them, are invested in bringing down and gutting Western culture of its Christian heritage and heralding a new dawn where a consumerist liberal ideology will reign over a neurotic and dehumanised population. To do this they have dropped the old idea of the working class being the useful idiots, and have weaponised homosexuals, radical females and non-white peoples as their newly manufactured oppressed groups, to be used and discarded whenever it suits their agenda. At every opportunity they will beat the drum to keep the idea of oppression alive so that it can be exploited. The Democrats and most of the mainstream media in the U.S. are the chief proponents of this. Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats and leftists, black and white, insist on emphasising 'white privilege' to the point where it is an accepted meme in people's minds. For this alone, they are not only racist but they are doubly at fault by stoking the fires which creates largely unjustified hatreds. We know that the Democrats and leftists don't care for life from their celebration of abortion. We know that the likes of Clinton will call mainly white Trump supporters 'deplorables' while many of them are suffering from the terrible plight of opioid epidemic in towns and cities across the U.S. that have suffered the loss of their jobs and communities. Anyone with a little compassion can see that both the black poor and the white poor are suffering. But as we know from previous attempts at left wing utopias the endgame isn't crating a more fulfilled life for all people but instead the establishment of a Godless regime controlled by a powerful elite. As Christians we are called to use our common sense to see what is unfolding before our eyes and exercise prudence. Are we supposed to cooperate with regimes that wish to destroy Christianity, the family unit and community and usher in moral chaos and degeneracy which we witness every day from the government and press? The answer is a resounding No. To cooperate with this is to cooperate with evil. Protesting peacefully the death of the man in the U.S. who was killed by the police is okay. Looting shops, stealing TVs, setting your city on fire and beating other human beings to death if they get in your way is grotesque. Also the presence of leftist agitators like Antifa only illustrate what we know; most don't care about George Floyd, they are interested in anarchy that will further decrease order and help them usher in their dystopia. The idea of racism has therefore being used and encouraged for political ends. A country that elected a black president twice is not overwhelmingly racist. Yes, there will be racists out there, black and white, and when they act upon that racism they should be punished within the law. But the real systematic hatred on display here and elsewhere in the West, in universities, governments, mainstream media is a vitriolic hatred of Christian God and the Christian idea of family and faith. We are not called to cooperate with something that is destroying what remains of our Christianity and really doesn't care about the George Floyds of this world. See it all for what it is. |
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 2, 2020 14:50:45 GMT
Would you have the same reaction if it was a white nationalist protest? (For what it's worth, I think the protest was imprudent in the middle of a pandemic, but the issues raised are certainly valid.) The big picture is simple. Progressives, Liberals, Marxists, Globalists, whatever you want to call them, are invested in bringing down and gutting Western culture of its Christian heritage and heralding a new dawn where a consumerist liberal ideology will reign over a neurotic and dehumanised population. To do this they have dropped the old idea of the working class being the useful idiots, and have weaponised homosexuals, radical females and non-white peoples as their newly manufactured oppressed groups, to be used and discarded whenever it suits their agenda. At every opportunity they will beat the drum to keep the idea of oppression alive so that it can be exploited. The Democrats and most of the mainstream media in the U.S. are the chief proponents of this. Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats and leftists, black and white, insist on emphasising 'white privilege' to the point where it is an accepted meme in people's minds. For this alone, they are not only racist but they are doubly at fault by stoking the fires which creates largely unjustified hatreds. We know that the Democrats and leftists don't care for life from their celebration of abortion. We know that the likes of Clinton will call mainly white Trump supporters 'deplorables' while many of them are suffering from the terrible plight of opioid epidemic in towns and cities across the U.S. that have suffered the loss of their jobs and communities. Anyone with a little compassion can see that both the black poor and the white poor are suffering. But as we know from previous attempts at left wing utopias the endgame isn't crating a more fulfilled life for all people but instead the establishment of a Godless regime controlled by a powerful elite. As Christians we are called to use our common sense to see what is unfolding before our eyes and exercise prudence. Are we supposed to cooperate with regimes that wish to destroy Christianity, the family unit and community and usher in moral chaos and degeneracy which we witness every day from the government and press? The answer is a resounding No. To cooperate with this is to cooperate with evil. Protesting peacefully the death of the man in the U.S. who was killed by the police is okay. Looting shops, stealing TVs, setting your city on fire and beating other human beings to death if they get in your way is grotesque. Also the presence of leftist agitators like Antifa only illustrate what we know; most don't care about George Floyd, they are interested in anarchy that will further decrease order and help them usher in their dystopia. The idea of racism has therefore being used and encouraged for political ends. A country that elected a black president twice is not overwhelmingly racist. Yes, there will be racists out there, black and white, and when they act upon that racism they should be punished within the law. But the real systematic hatred on display here and elsewhere in the West, in universities, governments, mainstream media is a vitriolic hatred of Christian God and the Christian idea of family and faith. We are not called to cooperate with something that is destroying what remains of our Christianity and really doesn't care about the George Floyds of this world. See it all for what it is. Certainly we should not cooperate with anyone who seeks to bring down Christianity. But neither should we collaborate with the alt-right, a grouping that includes eugenicists (including support for abortion on the grounds of race and disability), anti-semites, sexual deviants (the alt-right has a rather ambivalent relationship with pornography and many of their memes originate from there) and literal satanists (many of whom blame Christianity and more specifically its belief in racial equality for "undermining the white race"). Certainly, nobody should ever condone the violence that is unfolding in the States at the minute, but it cuts both ways and we need to be consistent. |
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Post by assisi on Jun 2, 2020 19:47:53 GMT
The big picture is simple. Progressives, Liberals, Marxists, Globalists, whatever you want to call them, are invested in bringing down and gutting Western culture of its Christian heritage and heralding a new dawn where a consumerist liberal ideology will reign over a neurotic and dehumanised population. To do this they have dropped the old idea of the working class being the useful idiots, and have weaponised homosexuals, radical females and non-white peoples as their newly manufactured oppressed groups, to be used and discarded whenever it suits their agenda. At every opportunity they will beat the drum to keep the idea of oppression alive so that it can be exploited. The Democrats and most of the mainstream media in the U.S. are the chief proponents of this. Hillary Clinton and many other Democrats and leftists, black and white, insist on emphasising 'white privilege' to the point where it is an accepted meme in people's minds. For this alone, they are not only racist but they are doubly at fault by stoking the fires which creates largely unjustified hatreds. We know that the Democrats and leftists don't care for life from their celebration of abortion. We know that the likes of Clinton will call mainly white Trump supporters 'deplorables' while many of them are suffering from the terrible plight of opioid epidemic in towns and cities across the U.S. that have suffered the loss of their jobs and communities. Anyone with a little compassion can see that both the black poor and the white poor are suffering. But as we know from previous attempts at left wing utopias the endgame isn't crating a more fulfilled life for all people but instead the establishment of a Godless regime controlled by a powerful elite. As Christians we are called to use our common sense to see what is unfolding before our eyes and exercise prudence. Are we supposed to cooperate with regimes that wish to destroy Christianity, the family unit and community and usher in moral chaos and degeneracy which we witness every day from the government and press? The answer is a resounding No. To cooperate with this is to cooperate with evil. Protesting peacefully the death of the man in the U.S. who was killed by the police is okay. Looting shops, stealing TVs, setting your city on fire and beating other human beings to death if they get in your way is grotesque. Also the presence of leftist agitators like Antifa only illustrate what we know; most don't care about George Floyd, they are interested in anarchy that will further decrease order and help them usher in their dystopia. The idea of racism has therefore being used and encouraged for political ends. A country that elected a black president twice is not overwhelmingly racist. Yes, there will be racists out there, black and white, and when they act upon that racism they should be punished within the law. But the real systematic hatred on display here and elsewhere in the West, in universities, governments, mainstream media is a vitriolic hatred of Christian God and the Christian idea of family and faith. We are not called to cooperate with something that is destroying what remains of our Christianity and really doesn't care about the George Floyds of this world. See it all for what it is. Certainly we should not cooperate with anyone who seeks to bring down Christianity. But neither should we collaborate with the alt-right, a grouping that includes eugenicists (including support for abortion on the grounds of race and disability), anti-semites, sexual deviants (the alt-right has a rather ambivalent relationship with pornography and many of their memes originate from there) and literal satanists (many of whom blame Christianity and more specifically its belief in racial equality for "undermining the white race"). Certainly, nobody should ever condone the violence that is unfolding in the States at the minute, but it cuts both ways and we need to be consistent. The reference to alt-right is surely a straw man argument, a deflection tactic to avoid facing the truth of this matter. The globalist left experiment and social engineering policy is where the power lies. Think of those pushing the LGBT, radical feminism and anti-nation state policies and you have a whos who of power: The United Nations, the EU, WHO, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, virtually all Hollywood, most multinational companies, almost all Western Governments bar Poland and Hungary, the mainstream media in all its rottenness, the police forces, the public sector, the banking and finance world. Its practically a universal ethos steeped in power that bullies outliers like us should we stick our head above the parapet. The alt-right (whoever they are) are as a flea to the mammoth that is the globalist left structure. |
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Post by Young Ireland on Jun 2, 2020 20:26:54 GMT
Certainly we should not cooperate with anyone who seeks to bring down Christianity. But neither should we collaborate with the alt-right, a grouping that includes eugenicists (including support for abortion on the grounds of race and disability), anti-semites, sexual deviants (the alt-right has a rather ambivalent relationship with pornography and many of their memes originate from there) and literal satanists (many of whom blame Christianity and more specifically its belief in racial equality for "undermining the white race"). Certainly, nobody should ever condone the violence that is unfolding in the States at the minute, but it cuts both ways and we need to be consistent. The reference to alt-right is surely a straw man argument, a deflection tactic to avoid facing the truth of this matter. The globalist left experiment and social engineering policy is where the power lies. Think of those pushing the LGBT, radical feminism and anti-nation state policies and you have a whos who of power: The United Nations, the EU, WHO, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, virtually all Hollywood, most multinational companies, almost all Western Governments bar Poland and Hungary, the mainstream media in all its rottenness, the police forces, the public sector, the banking and finance world. Its practically a universal ethos steeped in power that bullies outliers like us should we stick our head above the parapet. The alt-right (whoever they are) are as a flea to the mammoth that is the globalist left structure. But what that boils down to is Manicheanism regarding anything that can remotely be considered left-wing, yet indifference when the politics is right-wing. In fact, China is one of the biggest advocates for Westphalianism, along with Russia, Iran, Cuba and North Korea, all of which support it to shield themselves from external scrutiny. Can you see how such a selective stance might be self-contradictory? |
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Post by cato on Jun 2, 2020 22:23:00 GMT
]Certainly we should not cooperate with anyone who seeks to bring down Christianity. But neither should we collaborate with the alt-right, a grouping that includes eugenicists (including support for abortion on the grounds of race and disability), anti-semites, sexual deviants (the alt-right has a rather ambivalent relationship with pornography and many of their memes originate from there) and literal satanists (many of whom blame Christianity and more specifically its belief in racial equality for "undermining the white race"). Certainly, nobody should ever condone the violence that is unfolding in the States at the minute, but it cuts both ways and we need to be consistent.[/quote]
Young Ireland although most of our little band of posters are Christian and we revere Christian Civilisation this is not a Christian site. This is the Irish Conservative site.
We are a broad church and agree to disagree on some things while agreeing on most things. You mention the need to be consistent . I rarely am. One thing that does unite us is that we reject the leftist liberal discourse - which is now the dominant ideology in Ireland.
What is happening in the USA at present is a tragedy. I have never admired the current president believing him to be fundamentally flawed in character. He is pouring fuel on flames for selfish short term gain. Legitimate protest is also being hijacked by extreme forces mainly of the far left to create chaos and a bloody state response.
The deliberate manipulation of this crisis by Trump is widely propagated by our media. There is a strong element of objective truth in this narrative but it fails to tell another part of this sorry tale.
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Post by Séamus on Jun 3, 2020 1:09:01 GMT
]Certainly we should not cooperate with anyone who seeks to bring down Christianity. But neither should we collaborate with the alt-right, a grouping that includes eugenicists (including support for abortion on the grounds of race and disability), anti-semites, sexual deviants (the alt-right has a rather ambivalent relationship with pornography and many of their memes originate from there) and literal satanists (many of whom blame Christianity and more specifically its belief in racial equality for "undermining the white race"). Certainly, nobody should ever condone the violence that is unfolding in the States at the minute, but it cuts both ways and we need to be consistent. Young Ireland although most of our little band of posters are Christian and we revere Christian Civilisation this is not a Christian site. This is the Irish Conservative site. We are a broad church and agree to disagree on some things while agreeing on most things. You mention the need to be consistent . I rarely am. One thing that does unite us is that we reject the leftist liberal discourse - which is now the dominant ideology in Ireland. What is happening in the USA at present is a tragedy. I have never admired the current president believing him to be fundamentally flawed in character. He is pouring fuel on flames for selfish short term gain. Legitimate protest is also being hijacked by extreme forces mainly of the far left to create chaos and a bloody state response. The deliberate manipulation of this crisis by Trump is widely propagated by our media. There is a strong element of objective truth in this narrative but it fails to tell another part of this sorry tale. [/quote] ****************** Although not a Christian site, it may be worth mentioning that today's feast of the Ugandan martyrs, the first sub-Saharan saints of modern times, might be a focal point while praying for sanity... I was looking through a recent National Geographic this week which highlighted the life of several women who ruled Egypt, taken from a recent book by a Professor Kara Cooney. Ruling either officially or unofficially,we see regent Merneith to well-known Hatshepsut to Tawosret, who ruled as regent for disabled Sipth, skipping centuries to Cleopatra. Somewhere between the last two, closer to Tawosret, the book of Job was written, where the protagonist states "if I have infringed the rights of a slave or maidservant in legal actions against me, what shall I do when God stands up.... They, no less than I, were created in the womb by the same God who shaped us all within our mothers". When contrasted with the often vicious, always indifferent-to-social-change, pharoah ladies, the Judeo-Christian ethos stands out even then. As fascinating as history always is, Pro. Cooney's articles show little evidence of mass empowerment by comparison to Job's words. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 3, 2020 18:44:09 GMT
Let's keep things friendly, even where we disagree-- some unnecessary heat in this post.
The distinction between conservative and Christian is quite relevant to my own views on this subject. As a conservative, I tend to be hostile to all talk of institutional racism, which smack to me of social engineering and victimology.
As a Catholic, however, I have to acknowledge that the Church-- at least in our time-- does tend to speak a lot about the dangers of discrimination and the evil of racism. More than I would like, in all honesty.
My American wife, who is probably more conservative than I am in many ways, and by no means politically correct, has convinced me that institutional racism does indeed exist in America, and that she has witnessed it. Incidentally, she thinks the situation is very different in Ireland.
Apologies for my near-absence from the forum recently. My internet access has been limited.
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