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Post by kj on Sept 7, 2021 19:36:28 GMT
I'm curious as to people's general mood, interest etc in "the Ulster Question".
As a child, I was vaguely horrified by it all. Growing up in the 80s I recall the seemingly very regular reports of bombs and murders, and really not wanting to know much more. (I was also slightly disturbed by the regular use of what sounded to me like 'armed gorillas' in the north of the country. My brain didn't want to go there.)
Even in adulthood I could never take much interest, perhaps in reaction to that childhood background noise. When I did finally decide to read about it I found myself concluding that the IRA's armed campaign against British military and security forces was morally justified, but not its targeting of civilians, but it was not particularly a matter that enflamed me morally. Like the Israel/Palestine conflict, I just accepted that there was no solution and the quagmire would be indefinite.
These days the prospect of a United Ireland seems a little more likely due to demographics and so on, but as Ireland becomes more of a mirror of global liberal culture and its Irishness is diluted further I cannot say the prospect of a 32 county Ireland excites me, even if I do think it would be the correct thing from a historical and moral view.
And of course most of us are probably aware of the irony that the most "traditional" and conservative elements on the Ireland are the hardcore Ulster Unionists, which offers its own grim commentary on the 26 counties.
I wonder how others feel about the issue?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 7, 2021 21:35:32 GMT
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Post by kj on Sept 8, 2021 7:19:12 GMT
Nice blog post.
I agree about the accents:-) And that NI has always seemed like its own separate country - maybe ideally that's what it should be.
Also the part about being irritated when people say "why do such historical issues still matter?" The implied subtext being that all one should care about is money and nothing more (and maybe minority rights).
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 13, 2021 19:41:16 GMT
I support taking it, and annexing it to the republic; it is part of Ireland, so that principle overrides any other concerns; I do have an idea for how to grant it autonomy within the framework of the Irish state; but it must become part of the state. I don't care how we get it back. peacefull unification is ideal; but if we have to liberate it by force, so be it. unionists who do not accept the Irishness of the land they live on will be removed from ireland; those who cooperate with this can choose where we send them, and I will even help them procure citizenship and housing wherever that is, but that is only if they do not resist their removal; it is not all protestents that this will target, just those who are active unionists
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Sept 13, 2021 20:10:56 GMT
I support taking it, and annexing it to the republic; it is part of Ireland, so that principle overrides any other concerns; I do have an idea for how to grant it autonomy within the framework of the Irish state; but it must become part of the state. I don't care how we get it back. peacefull unification is ideal; but if we have to liberate it by force, so be it. unionists who do not accept the Irishness of the land they live on will be removed from ireland; those who cooperate with this can choose where we send them, and I will even help them procure citizenship and housing wherever that is, but that is only if they do not resist their removal; it is not all protestents that this will target, just those who are active unionists Why would Northerners want to be part of the most anti Catholic country in Europe at the moment?
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Post by Stephen on Sept 14, 2021 8:22:35 GMT
I support taking it, and annexing it to the republic; it is part of Ireland, so that principle overrides any other concerns; I do have an idea for how to grant it autonomy within the framework of the Irish state; but it must become part of the state. I don't care how we get it back. peacefull unification is ideal; but if we have to liberate it by force, so be it. unionists who do not accept the Irishness of the land they live on will be removed from ireland; those who cooperate with this can choose where we send them, and I will even help them procure citizenship and housing wherever that is, but that is only if they do not resist their removal; it is not all protestents that this will target, just those who are active unionists "I do have an idea for how to grant it autonomy within the framework of the Irish state; but it must become part of the state." Interested to hear this as I live in the free 6
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 14, 2021 15:02:43 GMT
I support taking it, and annexing it to the republic; it is part of Ireland, so that principle overrides any other concerns; I do have an idea for how to grant it autonomy within the framework of the Irish state; but it must become part of the state. I don't care how we get it back. peacefull unification is ideal; but if we have to liberate it by force, so be it. unionists who do not accept the Irishness of the land they live on will be removed from ireland; those who cooperate with this can choose where we send them, and I will even help them procure citizenship and housing wherever that is, but that is only if they do not resist their removal; it is not all protestents that this will target, just those who are active unionists "I do have an idea for how to grant it autonomy within the framework of the Irish state; but it must become part of the state." Interested to hear this as I live in the free 6 Northern Ireland can be an autonomous region of the Irish republic, with its status enshrined in the Irish constitution (and thus not changeable or curtailable by regular legislation, and the government in dublin unable to suspend its own assembly); and will recognize Ulster Scots as the Third language of Ireland; alongside Irish and English.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 18, 2021 21:29:42 GMT
I think the official status of ulster scots, along with its recognition as a distinct language from English, is better treatment of the language then the British crown ever has or will give. The British government has never treated Ulster Scots as anything but a slangy and distinctive dialect of English. Ulster Scots is in fact linguistically closer to the English of Beowulf then the English I am writing this post in is. I might even be willing to extend some of the numerous active state support Irish gets (funding media in the language; placing it in the schools, though Ulster Scots, unlike Irish, might not be mandatory to take, but it will probably be mandatory to offer, and I can be talked into changing my mind on this; ) to Ulster Scots. though of course not all of it, but a substantial amount yes.
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Post by cato on Sept 19, 2021 10:39:13 GMT
I think the official status of ulster scots, along with its recognition as a distinct language from English, is better treatment of the language then the British crown ever has or will give. The British government has never treated Ulster Scots as anything but a slangy and distinctive dialect of English. Ulster Scots is in fact linguistically closer to the English of Beowulf then the English I am writing this post in is. I might even be willing to extend some of the numerous active state support Irish gets (funding media in the language; placing it in the schools, though Ulster Scots, unlike Irish, might not be mandatory to take, but it will probably be mandatory to offer, and I can be talked into changing my mind on this; ) to Ulster Scots. though of course not all of it, but a substantial amount yes. I am an Ulster man with catholic and Protestant ancestors. Most of my relations were bemused when the patois/regional dialect of Ulster Scots/Lallins was referred to as a separate language from English. This is utter nonsense. Some unionists are simply taking the mikey and are playing the PC card to benefit local interests and get EU and other regional funding for their constituents. Its also a bit of a wind up to some Irish language enthusiasts who in turn use Irish to wind up the unionists. Ulster Scotch is not a stand alone separate language in the same way as Irish or Scots Gaelic. Its a pc fiction.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 19, 2021 14:37:44 GMT
I think the official status of ulster scots, along with its recognition as a distinct language from English, is better treatment of the language then the British crown ever has or will give. The British government has never treated Ulster Scots as anything but a slangy and distinctive dialect of English. Ulster Scots is in fact linguistically closer to the English of Beowulf then the English I am writing this post in is. I might even be willing to extend some of the numerous active state support Irish gets (funding media in the language; placing it in the schools, though Ulster Scots, unlike Irish, might not be mandatory to take, but it will probably be mandatory to offer, and I can be talked into changing my mind on this; ) to Ulster Scots. though of course not all of it, but a substantial amount yes. I am an Ulster man with catholic and Protestant ancestors. Most of my relations were bemused when the patois/regional dialect of Ulster Scots/Lallins was referred to as a separate language from English. This is utter nonsense. Some unionists are simply taking the mikey and are playing the PC card to benefit local interests and get EU and other regional funding for their constituents. Its also a bit of a wind up to some Irish language enthusiasts who in turn use Irish to wind up the unionists. Ulster Scotch is not a stand alone separate language in the same way as Irish or Scots Gaelic. Its a pc fiction. is that so? I admit I have my own doubts about weather it is a separate language from English. Even professional linguists disagree on that matter. I will note that Afrikaans was recognized as a separate language from Dutch only in the 1920s. Also, recognizing Ulster Scots as a separate language has the welcome side effect of weakening the English language in Ireland, by fragmenting it to a degree, making the restoration of Irish as the majority language a bit easier; so even if it is a pc fiction, it is a pc fiction that makes accomplishment of a good end easier, and so going along with it as if proponents of it happened to be right by accident is advantageous. as well, "a language is a dialect with an army and navy."
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