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Post by cato on Dec 6, 2022 13:01:07 GMT
Today 100 years ago the Irish Free State came into formal international legal existence. The new state was in the middle of a vicious civil war and a proportion of the population bitterly resented the new state. The IRA attempted to destroy the new state at birth and planned a resumption of the war against the British Empire and the heavily armed unionists regime in Belfast. In the unlikely event they would have suceeded driving the British army out there would have been a much bloodier all island civil war.
Ireland along with Sweden , Switzerland, and the UK was one of 4 sucessful European democracies that avoided dictatorship of the right or the left in the 20th century. We have many flaws but preserving free democratic constitutional government is a major historical achievement and something to be proud of.
For petty reasons our current government is afraid to say the civil war was sadly necessary when the IRA decided it knew better that the 75% of the electorate that endorsed the treaty. The Republicans lost the civil war but they won the propaganda war in subsequent decades. The alternative to the war was even more death and possible total defeat and British re-occupation of the island.
Republican were brave and principled but there is a necessary place in politics for prudence, patience and compromise too. That was sadly overlooked in 1922. Happy centenary Ireland.
Ps the new Free State briefly consisted of 32 counties until the Northern Parliament opted out a day later.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Dec 6, 2022 14:49:25 GMT
There has been very little commemoration of the centenary. Although I had a look at the newspapers from this day a hundred years ago and there was very little hoop-la then, either.
This week I attended a Foundation of the State conference in UCD, which was opened by The Taoiseach. He argued that the fledgling State, for all its drawbacks, had some huge achievements, the mere survival of democracy being one of them.
It was clear from the various contributions that independence was not an economic win, certainly not in the short term. Something that the Irish should remember when we criticize Brexit.
I'm very grateful for the massive sacrifices over the centuries that led to the eventual foundation of this imperfect state. Independence is not nothing.
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Post by cato on Dec 7, 2022 11:57:23 GMT
There has been very little commemoration of the centenary. Although I had a look at the newspapers from this day a hundred years ago and there was very little hoop-la then, either. This week I attended a Foundation of the State conference in UCD, which was opened by The Taoiseach. He argued that the fledgling State, for all its drawbacks, had some huge achievements, the mere survival of democracy being one of them. It was clear from the various contributions that independence was not an economic win, certainly not in the short term. Something that the Irish should remember when we criticize Brexit. I'm very grateful for the massive sacrifices over the centuries that led to the eventual foundation of this imperfect state. Independence is not nothing. The economic failures of the state allied with the way charities (mainly Catholic) treated the poor and vulnerable are the two worst failures of the new state for such a long time. The Irish state now seems to be primarily an economy with its social vision determined by government funded NGOs in an unholy alliance. Unfortunately we still rely on a handful of powerful US High tech and pharmaceutical companies to drive our economy and have relatively neglected small to medium Irish enterprises. One reason why the anniversary is ignored is the completely different vision of 100 years ago. The "Revolution" was a political cultural break with the UK not a socialist utopian uprising. Even then we maintained certain close links with Britain that we don't have with other states. The founders of this state were white, stale males. Worse mainly conservative Nationalist catholics. Modern multicultural Ireland would feel distinctly ill at ease honouring them. The identity politics of 1922 is almost completely alien to that of 2022. |
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Post by kj on Dec 7, 2022 13:29:42 GMT
For what little it's worth, my perspective from abroad is that the current regime seems to be determined to turn Ireland into a version of the UK as quickly as is possible. Multi-cultural, religion relegated to the margins, money the sole be-all and end-all.
I'm glad our country is independent, but the current trajectory toward global blandness and lack of any real differentiation does make me ask was all the bloodshed worth it? I can't imagine Pearse would be happy with it. Connolly, who knows?
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Post by cato on Dec 7, 2022 15:24:03 GMT
For what little it's worth, my perspective from abroad is that the current regime seems to be determined to turn Ireland into a version of the UK as quickly as is possible. Multi-cultural, religion relegated to the margins, money the sole be-all and end-all. I'm glad our country is independent, but the current trajectory toward global blandness and lack of any real differentiation does make me ask was all the bloodshed worth it? I can't imagine Pearse would be happy with it. Connolly, who I would slightly qualify the above. The current Dublin regime utterly despise the UK largely for culture war/Brexit issues. The model they aspire to is a wealthy bland progressive multicultural European state without right wingers. Maybe Sweden but without the sceptical attitude to Lockdowns and increasingly mass emigration. |
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Post by kj on Dec 7, 2022 15:59:05 GMT
I would slightly qualify the above. The current Dublin regime utterly despise the UK largely for culture war/Brexit issues. The model they aspire to is a wealthy bland progressive multicultural European state without right wingers. Maybe Sweden but without the sceptical attitude to Lockdowns and increasingly mass emigration. I'm too far away to know what they think of the UK, so I don't doubt you, but if indeed they aspire to Europe, I imagine the reality will be more like the UK: functional, but grotty and uninspiring with all of the attendant social issues that such a trajectory brings. |
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