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Post by Tomas on Jul 20, 2023 9:13:19 GMT
How much of this degraded teaching will be pushed through from official Bergoglian powerhouse and swallowed up by the lukewarm public and even by Bishops?
Some of the predicted agenda in plain lines:
1) A false exegesis of scripture will be presented, wrongly asserting that Biblical writers knew nothing about the modern sense of homosexuality. And therefore, the divinely mandated condemnation and prohibitions against sodomy don't apply
2) An apology will be given for the Church's past condemnation of homosexual sex acts
3) The designation of homosexual sex acts as intrinsically disordered will be overturned, possibly replaced by the term 'differently ordered'
4) The Catechism of the Catholic Church's paragraphs condemning homosexuality will be declared unacceptable, and will be changed
5) The blessing of homosexual pairings will be permitted
6) The prohibition of openly homosexual persons training to be priests will be overturned
7) Priests and religious who are homosexuals will be encouraged to 'come out' to their congregations and communities
8) Lay people who openly live as homosexuals will be welcomed to participate in the life of the Church, including all professional bodies such as education
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 20, 2023 11:39:02 GMT
I don't think any of that will happen!
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Post by hilary on Jul 20, 2023 12:39:40 GMT
No doubt some will see it as homophobic to mention this - but isn't it awful to see Government offices flying Pride flags, and Ministers joining in the celebrations, when the Health Protection Surveillance Centre is currently showing a 144% increase in notified cases of Gonorrhoea for the first half of 2023 over the same period in 2022? Gay, bisexual people and men who have sex with men made up 71% of the cases in 2022 and 84% of cases of early infectious Syphilis. There is also mention on that website and the ECDC website of an infection Shigella/Shigellosis which affects the same group:
"Since April 2023, over 300 shigellosis cases, many with multidrug-resistant Shigella sonnei infections, have been reported to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC)". The website goes on to say that 50 of the 300 cases are in Ireland and that there is a risk of infection of close contacts outside the GBMSM community.
The European Commission Eurostat website shows Ireland with a high excess mortality rate currently (13.3%), although the Taoiseach seemed to disagree recently. Maybe some of those were people who succumbed to one of these infections. Hopefully when this topic is introduced to secondary school students the dangers will be highlighted. There's certainly a lack of courage, compassion, common sense and critical thinking in our government and maybe in the Synod too.
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Post by Tomas on Jul 20, 2023 14:14:53 GMT
So much filth and flaws and feigned concern over vulnerable youth that I have perpetual trouble being optimist, both in Church scandals and Globalist war politics. Glad to see you make other thinking possible for consideration. The close meme may never be called to be shown: STAY CALM whatever fake comes around because CHURCH business remains more or less OK, AS BEFORE?
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2023 10:57:23 GMT
How much of this degraded teaching will be pushed through from official Bergoglian powerhouse and swallowed up by the lukewarm public and even by Bishops? Some of the predicted agenda in plain lines: 1) A false exegesis of scripture will be presented, wrongly asserting that Biblical writers knew nothing about the modern sense of homosexuality. And therefore, the divinely mandated condemnation and prohibitions against sodomy don't apply 2) An apology will be given for the Church's past condemnation of homosexual sex acts 3) The designation of homosexual sex acts as intrinsically disordered will be overturned, possibly replaced by the term 'differently ordered' 4) The Catechism of the Catholic Church's paragraphs condemning homosexuality will be declared unacceptable, and will be changed 5) The blessing of homosexual pairings will be permitted 6) The prohibition of openly homosexual persons training to be priests will be overturned 7) Priests and religious who are homosexuals will be encouraged to 'come out' to their congregations and communities 8) Lay people who openly live as homosexuals will be welcomed to participate in the life of the Church, including all professional bodies such as education Tomas I would only rule out 2 and 6 of your list and those only because it would be a case of too much too soon. All the other ideas have been openly freely circulating for the the current pontificate. Many religious orders are already "gay friendly" and it would appear the homosexual minority of less than 5% is very heavily over represented among clergy and bishops.Mary Kenny in Goodbye to Catholic Ireland made mention of this fact nearly 30 years ago. I was still quite shocked at how quickly the gay blessing idea was proposed by high ranking prelates. This is simply pseudo marriage reflecting recent western secular trends. I don't need to add this is a direct assault on traditional Catholic doctrine and morality. The Francis revolution rarely involves formal doctrinal change. He is more interested in praxis or pastoral change on the ground while leaving formal teaching on the books as an ideal. He has stacked the Synod with progressive types often of an extreme nature. The college of cardinals is almost completely his creation now as he seeks to cement his reforms. I suspect we will see a more vague welcoming minorities agenda coming from Rome post Synod while encouraging local initiatives. Gay blessing ceremonies are already being performed in Germany and Holland. The attitude of the African Church will be interesting. Anglicanism is splitting again over the issue of homosexuality. That row will surely be replicated in the Catholic Church on similar battle lines?
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2023 19:39:48 GMT
I noticed today in Dublin a Catholic primary school still flying the rainbow flag. During the Holy month of pride the vast majority of schools flew this banner. On the north Strand in Dublin I noticed one outside the local boys school while the church across the road still flew an old worn papal flag.
The pride flag represents adult sexual practices and sexual liberation in general, both completely unacceptable to traditional Christian practice.
National schools teach the under 12s. Why is it necessary to fly this ideologically laden emblem over "Catholic" schools. This is so incredibly sinister yet no one in power in the church seems perturbed or concerned.
Once schools flew the papal flag. Now they proudly fly the flag of a drag queen revolt in 1960s San Francisco that has come to represent sexual liberation and hedonism.
This is about raw power not tolerance and respect. Its happening right in front of our eyes.
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Post by Tomas on Jul 24, 2023 8:13:57 GMT
How much of this degraded teaching will be pushed through from official Bergoglian powerhouse and swallowed up by the lukewarm public and even by Bishops? Some of the predicted agenda in plain lines: 1) A false exegesis of scripture will be presented, wrongly asserting that Biblical writers knew nothing about the modern sense of homosexuality. And therefore, the divinely mandated condemnation and prohibitions against sodomy don't apply 2) An apology will be given for the Church's past condemnation of homosexual sex acts 3) The designation of homosexual sex acts as intrinsically disordered will be overturned, possibly replaced by the term 'differently ordered' 4) The Catechism of the Catholic Church's paragraphs condemning homosexuality will be declared unacceptable, and will be changed 5) The blessing of homosexual pairings will be permitted 6) The prohibition of openly homosexual persons training to be priests will be overturned 7) Priests and religious who are homosexuals will be encouraged to 'come out' to their congregations and communities 8) Lay people who openly live as homosexuals will be welcomed to participate in the life of the Church, including all professional bodies such as education Tomas I would only rule out 2 and 6 of your list and those only because it would be a case of too much too soon. All the other ideas have been openly freely circulating for the the current pontificate. Many religious orders are already "gay friendly" and it would appear the homosexual minority of less than 5% is very heavily over represented among clergy and bishops.Mary Kenny in Goodbye to Catholic Ireland made mention of this fact nearly 30 years ago. I was still quite shocked at how quickly the gay blessing idea was proposed by high ranking prelates. This is simply pseudo marriage reflecting recent western secular trends. I don't need to add this is a direct assault on traditional Catholic doctrine and morality. The Francis revolution rarely involves formal doctrinal change. He is more interested in praxis or pastoral change on the ground while leaving formal teaching on the books as an ideal. He has stacked the Synod with progressive types often of an extreme nature. The college of cardinals is almost completely his creation now as he seeks to cement his reforms. I suspect we will see a more vague welcoming minorities agenda coming from Rome post Synod while encouraging local initiatives. Gay blessing ceremonies are already being performed in Germany and Holland. The attitude of the African Church will be interesting. Anglicanism is splitting again over the issue of homosexuality. That row will surely be replicated in the Catholic Church on similar battle lines? This is my take too. Point 6 (less so 7, but famous men tolerated and "welcomed" as anyone else) perhaps deemed unnecessary if already given in practice. Point 8 may be one of the most offensive but could also be sugarcoat enough according to Francis own ruling. Several ex-anglicans and ex-protestants of other kind sigh and understand this to be the same same implemented in their lgtbq-permeated organisations since circa early 1990s. To the effect that priestesses and gays are almost the only ones still there among the officials who celebrates ceremonies. Empty pews apart from a few staying on ordinary and some activists, the latter also few.
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Post by Tomas on Jan 4, 2024 8:28:27 GMT
I don't think any of that will happen! So number 5 along with 3 was ordered from Rome. Possibly 7 as well (sic) by Bergoglian favourite mr Martin posing on social media with his boyfriend/antiwife?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 4, 2024 11:59:29 GMT
I don't think any of that will happen! So number 5 along with 3 was ordered from Rome. Possibly 7 as well (sic) by Bergoglian favourite mr Martin posing on social media with his boyfriend/antiwife? I disagree. The "pairing" was not blessed, nor has the Catechism been changed. The document (which I've read now) clearly restated Catholic teaching on marriage and homosexuality. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think the controversy is hugely overblown.
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Post by Tomas on Jan 4, 2024 13:13:31 GMT
So number 5 along with 3 was ordered from Rome. Possibly 7 as well (sic) by Bergoglian favourite mr Martin posing on social media with his boyfriend/antiwife? I disagree. The "pairing" was not blessed, nor has the Catechism been changed. The document (which I've read now) clearly restated Catholic teaching on marriage and homosexuality. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think the controversy is hugely overblown. I´m afraid it comes close to the Groucho Marx character dibbling with words. When picture after picture comes of recent pairings receiving blessings, also prominent ones by first user/abuser Francis-protected mr Martin, it doesn´t help to hold on to wishful thinking or reasoning this is like "ordinary" jesuitry in history. To bless pairs but not pairings... makes no sense at all.
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Post by Tomas on Jan 4, 2024 13:19:23 GMT
So number 5 along with 3 was ordered from Rome. Possibly 7 as well (sic) by Bergoglian favourite mr Martin posing on social media with his boyfriend/antiwife? I disagree. The "pairing" was not blessed, nor has the Catechism been changed. The document (which I've read now) clearly restated Catholic teaching on marriage and homosexuality. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think the controversy is hugely overblown. Retitled "Popesplainer addressing a critic" Sorry for not understanding the difference in "teaching" you claim not existing (i.e. heretical praxis/theory by indirect mean means, yet not producing outright blasphemy in b/w SHOCK WRIT since that would stop even the sternest Francis-friends from defending it blindly no matter reasons).
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 4, 2024 16:59:09 GMT
I disagree. The "pairing" was not blessed, nor has the Catechism been changed. The document (which I've read now) clearly restated Catholic teaching on marriage and homosexuality. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think the controversy is hugely overblown. I´m afraid it comes close to the Groucho Marx character dibbling with words. When picture after picture comes of recent pairings receiving blessings, also prominent ones by first user/abuser Francis-protected mr Martin, it doesn´t help to hold on to wishful thinking or reasoning this is like "ordinary" jesuitry in history. To bless pairs but not pairings... makes no sense at all. Catholic teaching is full of fine distinctions and often distorted or abused. Even if annulment is not Catholic divorce it's treated like it, often by Catholic annulment tribunals. Just one example.
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Post by Tomas on Jan 4, 2024 21:27:31 GMT
I´m afraid it comes close to the Groucho Marx character dibbling with words. When picture after picture comes of recent pairings receiving blessings, also prominent ones by first user/abuser Francis-protected mr Martin, it doesn´t help to hold on to wishful thinking or reasoning this is like "ordinary" jesuitry in history. To bless pairs but not pairings... makes no sense at all. Catholic teaching is full of fine distinctions and often distorted or abused. Even if annulment is not Catholic divorce it's treated like it, often by Catholic annulment tribunals. Just one example. That is a very good example of the same thing. Corrupt praxis could be the label. You are right. But one can still be upset about it and try to address the abuses? Or should one just let it be, leaving the abuses to someone else? Pray and keep silent because many saints were laying low and minding their own. Many priests actually advices to keep focus only on your own sins and never mind those of others. I don´t know. It may be (in some sense) that personal concern about abuses are only Protestant mindset, as the most often repeated phrase goes in last years controversy against Francis "undermining" of morals and Church norm.
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