Conserving and Preserving Irish Culture-- a Survey

Quickly for now, I resonate by far the most with the first position.

I reject the other points in reverse order because:

4) amounts to simply succumbing to globalised collectivism, with the greatest conformist powers ever put into force by man (the internet, mass media etc.)

3) This would be the ideal - however the aforementioned massive powers of indoctrination are so mighty now (more mighty than any of us really realise, I think) that I really don't think we can simply abandon people, including YOUNG CHILDREN FROM THEIR EARLIEST YEARS simply to a public which may already have been indoctrinated from its earliest years.

2) I really don't believe the greatest problem here is either the EU or the mass immigration. I believe the greatest problem of all is the Anglo-American media forces and I do not believe it makes me an Anglophobe to say that.



Paradoxically, I would even note that as awful as Brussels is, there may be elements that - again very paradoxically - work to balance the even more awful (to my mind) domination of New York and London, "Hollywood and Wall Street".

To give you an example of what I mean, the greatest immigration into this country is from Poland. But those Poles are helping keep Catholic Churches open! Indeed, I have been very touched by the piety of many of them, including at the Legion of Mary conferences I have spoken at.

What can I say? I am an immigrant to Ireland myself and I see those Poles bringing a culture to Ireland which is MUCH more compatible with Ireland than, say, Katy Perry singing "I kissed a girl and I liked it." Or the millions that flowed over from America during the SSM referendum.

Yes, I think these Poles from that most illiberal EU state may be bringing something providential ... 

I've been pondering this since my last post, and the following thought experiment came to me:

Imagine that you'd booked a private room in a hotel for a dinner with a lot of old friends, including their spouses and children, some of whom you'd never met before. Imagine further that you were all devout Catholics. Then imagine that, on the night of the much-anticipated dinner, the hotel manager told you the room had been double-booked with another party. He explained that there was plenty of room for another long table. He further said, "And you're all devout Catholics, so you should get along famously."

Well, you'd probably be unhappy. If the manager appealed to you to accommodate the newcomers, as there was nowhere else available at such short notice, you might agree. And maybe there might be intermingling and new friendships would be made. But you still probably wouldn't be happy. Your party were YOUR friends, and there were long-standing bonds of friendship involved-- even where you hadn't met their children and spouses, they'd heard about you and you'd heard about them. They had an entree, as it were (no pun intended). You could be at ease with them in a way you couldn't with the other party, even though you were all part of the mystical body of Christ.

Would it make much difference to your discomfiture and disappointment that they were devout Catholics? It might make some difference, but probably not much.

As for you being an immigrant yourself, Roger, I think most people would agree there's all the difference in the world between an individual who has a deep-seated interest in the country they've come to, and a concern for its national soul, and a large block of people who are just there for economic reasons and bring their own culture and identity. I mean, I'm not even necessarily saying that the latter is a bad thing and I'm certainly not attacking the people themselves. But it's a big difference!

I've been grappling lately with the question of the relationship between Irishness and Catholicism. Presently I liken it the relationship between say faith and works or body and soul, insofar as, from an Irish point of view, one is not complete without the other.  It's not a perfect analogy but the framework helps me.  


I can't really get into it any more deeply at the moment, but will return to the question in future comments.

Yes, it's definitely a visceral thing.  We care about nationality because the human experience is not an abstract experience but an experience of the concrete and particular.  This is a recurring theme in Catholic literature.


What I'm starting to do now is read back in Irish history to understand more about the tenacity of the Celtic culture that sustained this nation through centuries of foreign occupation - including the many non-Irish that assimiliated into it so willingly - with an eye to the question of how much of this was down to "Catholicism" and how much down to "Irishness."  Not that something like this is measurable, but I am looking critically at the social and intellectual undercurrents.  I'm not an academic or historian, though, so am looking really only for my own reasons.  Next time I read "Ulysses" I will also be looking at this question.

Sorry to hear you are poorly, Roger. Hope you feel better soon. God bless!

I'd agree that those issues are much more important. As for the importance of protecting some particular cultural identity, such as Gaelicness...I think its importance is something (as I've said) visceral, and it's hard to make practical arguments for it.