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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 17, 2018 14:05:14 GMT
Following a (good) suggestion, I'm setting up this stickied thread for subjects which people might want to bring up, but which they don't feel require a whole thread. So that includes straightforward requests for information, or anything else which you feel might fit under "miscellaneous".
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Post by Stephen on Jan 22, 2018 12:23:29 GMT
I was thinking about how people change there beliefs on topics from God to what to have for breakfast.
I think the deciding factor is, does this suit my general outlook on life. For example it is easy for someone to change there view on something that does not change this outlook like the tree outside my house is an ash tree not an oak.
Much harder to convince an issue that would change the way they live. An example being Abortion murder. If you convince someone this they will have to live very differently.
Another thing to keep an eye out for is Plausibility structure. Can the people listening to your arguments plausibly believe you. A good example is the conspiracy theories that believes the world is flat.
Feel free to correct me 馃ぃ
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Post by ClassicalRepublican on Jan 22, 2018 15:13:33 GMT
In information theory, information has been described as the negative of thermodynamic entropy.
So, is misinformation the same as entropy?
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Post by Stephen on Jan 22, 2018 15:16:31 GMT
In information theory, information has been described as the negative of thermodynamic entropy. So, is misinformation the same as entropy? Could you elaborate?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 22, 2018 16:02:26 GMT
I've always been interested in this subject, from big things to trivial things. I remember walking home from school as a teenager, and coming towards a shop, where I was thinking of buying a bag of Hula-Hoops. I remember thinking: "I'm going to go into the shop and buy the Hula-Hoops, or not. But I have no idea right now which it's going to be."
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Post by Stephen on Jan 23, 2018 7:43:01 GMT
I've always been interested in this subject, from big things to trivial things. I remember walking home from school as a teenager, and coming towards a shop, where I was thinking of buying a bag of Hula-Hoops. I remember thinking: "I'm going to go into the shop and buy the Hula-Hoops, or not. But I have no idea right now which it's going to be." Are you trying to force your primitive believe in free will on me!bigot 馃ぃ It is a very interesting topic and key to winning minds over.
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Post by cato on Jan 23, 2018 10:29:55 GMT
This is a huge topic and could include radical conversions , the psychology of motivation , social change , group think etc.
On a more modest and manageable level I think many of our leaders are motivated by the appeal of hard cash and the comforts of high office. It sounds overly simplistic but that's my current view.
I know a young politician probably a future TD formerly "anti choice" who has converted to pro choice views and is now a media darling, perhaps her change in opinion is perfectly genuine and she believes the unborn should have zero rights but it has also benefited her enormously to change her mind.
I think we also underestimate the power of emotion in swaying views. I would hazard most people are swayed by what they see on chat shows or what the media/celebrity crowd line is, rather than listening to logic or researching an issue, weighing up arguments etc. Ours is an age of emotivism ruled over by Oprah and her disciples.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 23, 2018 11:28:59 GMT
Well, I would have to admit that emotion shapes my own views as well...I wouldn't claim to be solely ruled by logic and reason.
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Post by Stephen on Jan 23, 2018 15:09:44 GMT
Well, I would have to admit that emotion shapes my own views as well...I wouldn't claim to be solely ruled by logic and reason. Unfortunately winning the emotional argument today is more important than the logical/ reason argument. That is why Emotionally intelligent people win the hearths and minds.
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Post by cato on Jan 23, 2018 18:30:03 GMT
Well, I would have to admit that emotion shapes my own views as well...I wouldn't claim to be solely ruled by logic and reason. I don't want to give the impression that I am an emotionless stoic. The point I was trying to make was that feelings based decision making has triumphed over the rational. This is a defining feature of our popular culture to the extent the rational is often seen as cold or uncaring. Of course our emotions are important but not to the exclusion of our critical faculties.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 23, 2018 19:54:08 GMT
I agree, but an example of a cause in which my emotions are paramount would be nationalism. It might be that globalization benefits everybody in terms of opportunities, wealth and peace-- that is, in purely utilitarian terms. But even if it does, I feel we lose something incalculable; the sense of belonging, of having a home in the world which is different from every other part of it, of keeping continuity with our traditions and history. Is that an emotion? Even if it is emotion, it's powerful enough to decide my attitude to globalization.
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Post by irishconfederate on Jan 24, 2018 10:02:13 GMT
I know there's an Irish Characteristics thread but I had a question that I thought it be best to put separately on this one:
Is grace at meal times an Irish tradition? I know the traditional prayer guides advise to say grace and there's probably an indulgence attached but I've never been in Irish company where we said grace before meals and the idea of it seems un-Irish somehow.
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Post by cato on Jan 24, 2018 10:42:54 GMT
I agree, but an example of a cause in which my emotions are paramount would be nationalism. It might be that globalization benefits everybody in terms of opportunities, wealth and peace-- that is, in purely utilitarian terms. But even if it does, I feel we lose something incalculable; the sense of belonging, of having a home in the world which is different from every other part of it, of keeping continuity with our traditions and history. Is that an emotion? Even if it is emotion, it's powerful enough to decide my attitude to globalization. I prefer the term patriotism to nationalism as nationalism often ,but not always or inevitably, involves denigrating another country. I often notice the negative views towards the outsider is nuch more powerful than the love and affection for ones own motherland among some nationalists. I suspect it was a distinction I picked up reading Chesterton or some similar reactionary.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 24, 2018 11:47:59 GMT
I've never had an experience of anyone in Ireland saying grace until I started doing it myself. I only encountered it in America when I went there (I was moving in very Catholic circles). I always do it now, even if I'm alone-- I say the grace (in Irish) silently, but I bless myself.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 24, 2018 11:51:14 GMT
I agree, but an example of a cause in which my emotions are paramount would be nationalism. It might be that globalization benefits everybody in terms of opportunities, wealth and peace-- that is, in purely utilitarian terms. But even if it does, I feel we lose something incalculable; the sense of belonging, of having a home in the world which is different from every other part of it, of keeping continuity with our traditions and history. Is that an emotion? Even if it is emotion, it's powerful enough to decide my attitude to globalization. I prefer the term patriotism to nationalism as nationalism often ,but not always or inevitably, involves denigrating another country. I often notice the negative views towards the outsider is nuch more powerful than the love and affection for ones own motherland among some nationalists. I suspect it was a distinction I picked up reading Chesterton or some similar reactionary. This distinction is one that's used a lot, but I've never liked it myself. I call myself a nationalist rather than a patriot because patriotism could simply mean civic patriotism or civic-mindedness, or loyalty to a polity. Nationalism, to me, is a very specific loyalty to the nation-- an entity underlying the state, or perhaps even existing without a state, and extending backwards and forward in time.
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