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Post by SedNomini on Nov 6, 2020 20:07:06 GMT
Have you been to a typical Irish parish recently or heard an average Irish homily at mass? I know we have Covid restrictions at present but the average Irish parish is basically a group of ageing middle class people quite happy with their economic and social lot. If there is ever a clash between their secular and religious views the secular inevitably triumps. They are completely resistant to any change to their comfortable but rapidly vanishing cocoon like existence. I am just wondering with the mass repatriation you call for are we going to take back our emigrants too? Ya, they are weak. But you only need one or two the be the visual figurehead of the Irish Church when it comes to the modern virtual world. People can only associate a couple of faces with movements anyway., so we don't need the majority of them. I also would make the invite to our expats, especially those born in Ireland. Not many from the 2nd and 3rd Gen would return, but that would be very important for the moral frame, for expat support, and for setting the dialectic. We also need to move past Blackpills. Catholics only consume Whitepills, as someone said somewhere here, we fight knowing that its a series of defeats until ultimate victory
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 6, 2020 20:26:59 GMT
I think the kind of radicalization you're describing has indeed happened in Irish history. It happened when St. Patrick arrived, and it happened in the aftermath of the 1916 Rising-- and, in a different way, in the Gaelic Revival prior to that. However, it seems quite rare.
The sad paradox is that it is the very conservatism of the Irish people we conservatives have to contend against. They are currently extremely conservative in their progressivism! However, I do see the desirability of whitepills.
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Post by SedNomini on Nov 6, 2020 20:42:34 GMT
I think the kind of radicalization you're describing has indeed happened in Irish history. It happened when St. Patrick arrived, and it happened in the aftermath of the 1916 Rising-- and, in a different way, in the Gaelic Revival prior to that. However, it seems quite rare. The sad paradox is that it is the very conservatism of the Irish people we conservatives have to contend against. They are currently extremely conservative in their progressivism! However, I do see the desirability of whitepills. We need to step over obstacles that are in the way, that to fight would be all fire and fury signifying nothing. We don't need to bury the dead, we need to come out with positive statements, positive visions of the future, and just assume we represent the real Irish National Spirit and not get bogged down. If we don't represent the true National Spirit, then it is pointless getting on message boards to wax lyrical about the decline, eulogising is worthless
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Post by SedNomini on Nov 6, 2020 21:06:28 GMT
Also, we should stop saying "Radicalization"/"Right-Wing"/yada yada, we should say "Normalization", or something to that effect. Don't let them frame our Returning to Reality as "Radical" (even if that is etymologically correct)
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 6, 2020 21:22:51 GMT
Also, we should stop saying "Radicalization"/"Right-Wing"/yada yada, we should say "Normalization", or something to that effect. Don't let them frame our Returning to Reality as "Radical" (even if that is etymologically correct) Radicalization wasn't the best word there, I know. I was just trying to signify a drastic change in attitudes.
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Post by cato on Nov 6, 2020 22:57:40 GMT
Doesn't radicalisation mean going back to the roots etymologically? So maybe the word isn't so bad after all. The left has a long history of stealing words and reinventing them .
On many threads here commentators here have remarked about problems with the term conservative. A potential right wing party should perhaps call itself the New Radicals just to annoy the left and to confuse them.
During Glasnost the hard left Russian communist old guard were referred to as conservatives in the western media much to the annoyance of Margaret Thatcher according to her biographer Charles Moore.
A friend of mine used to refer to the Irish progressives Democrat party as the Regressive Oligarchs.
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Post by assisi on Nov 7, 2020 20:30:52 GMT
Have you been to a typical Irish parish recently or heard an average Irish homily at mass? I know we have Covid restrictions at present but the average Irish parish is basically a group of ageing middle class people quite happy with their economic and social lot. If there is ever a clash between their secular and religious views the secular inevitably triumps. They are completely resistant to any change to their comfortable but rapidly vanishing cocoon like existence. I am just wondering with the mass repatriation you call for are we going to take back our emigrants too? Ya, they are weak. But you only need one or two the be the visual figurehead of the Irish Church when it comes to the modern virtual world. People can only associate a couple of faces with movements anyway., so we don't need the majority of them. I also would make the invite to our expats, especially those born in Ireland. Not many from the 2nd and 3rd Gen would return, but that would be very important for the moral frame, for expat support, and for setting the dialectic. We also need to move past Blackpills. Catholics only consume Whitepills, as someone said somewhere here, we fight knowing that its a series of defeats until ultimate victory A figurehead is the key to all this. I'm not just thinking of a figurehead in Catholicism (although that would be great) but more importantly now, a figurehead in Irish nationalist politics to lead a new party or one of the existing ones like the National party. The recent success of nationalist and conservative movements in the U.S. and Britain have been down to 2 charismatic and maverick characters, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson. Both have tapped into the working class frustration with identity politics and delivered election success in constituencies that were traditionally the home of left/liberal voters. I can't really judge Orban or Bolsanaro that well but they too seem to be no nonsense characters. Now many Nationalists and conservatives will point out that Trump and Boris do not deliver a truly nationalist or socially conservative set of policies, and Boris in particular seems to have become particularly lukewarm during this Covid period. But their initial successes, sometimes against all odds as in Trump's case, shows that a right leaning candidate can win. People are desperate to hear someone talk normal language. They know that the message Make America Great Again, means them, not some outsiders or sets of artificially constructed oppressed groups that are deemed to be the nation's favourites and to which homage must be shown. Any new nationalistic leader would have one great advantage over the left/liberal bunch, and that is the power to speak plainly and with humour. The left/liberal leaders are all stiff faced ideologues without trace of humour because they know that one badly chosen word will have them hauled before the twitter masses to explain themselves. They are imprisoned by their own crazy worldview. Kier Stamer, Macron, Trudeau etc are just tailor's dummies with clockwork platitudes. Is there out there anyone with the intelligence and character to lead nationalism? Justin Barrett is a good orator but has been around a while without having any real impact. Is there anyone in the field of Business, Sport or Entertainment with a political bent, who could rise to the occasion? I remember Peter Casey and Dana at least standing for the Presidency, political outsiders who made a dent for a while but who were ultimately not the answer. We are up against an RTE and mainstream media who would vilify any right wing outlier and give him or her little airtime. But an outlier with a reputation and a little bit of money behind them, that would be harder to ignore. It would also capture the imagination of at least some of the people who still believe the words of RTE and the Irish Times. Someone with the reputation of a Paul O'Connell, swagger and cash of a Michael O'Leary. But I don't see anyone out there at the moment.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 7, 2020 20:40:25 GMT
I wonder if Jim Corr would consider it.
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Post by Tomas on Nov 8, 2020 0:29:27 GMT
Glad to note some fresh discussions on near future. If politics worldwide now become stagnate or even close to a standstill the hour may come for building a broad movement long awaited.
Solidarity, freedom of speech and honesty, sweeping the lands. Not only Ireland but the whole world are crying out for that "Return to Reality" mentioned.
Opposition to the Orwellian falsehood and Globalist crookery has never been more needed.
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Post by SedNomini on Nov 9, 2020 18:59:38 GMT
How about something like: Home Security -> build homes, allow homes be built for children on parent's land, repatriate to free up more, redo the lending system to remove interest and give loans through the state. Percentage wipe-out per child in marriage Food Security -> local grown produce, subsidize farmers to give up access to percentage of land for community farms, awards for towns for % food in local supermarkets being home-grown, like Tidy Towns Generational Security -> huge incentives to attract home our youth to fill the vacated homes. Energy Security -> nationalise our natural gas and fuel, huge credits for heating etc. These are things we could do easily and every Real Irish (those mentioned above, those who are rooted in and depend on system stability) would love.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 9, 2020 19:31:03 GMT
I like many of those ideas, but when it comes to repatriation, Catholics have to take into account both Gaudium Spes and Veritatis Splendor which list deportation as a sin against human dignity, something always and everywhere wrong. I'm not saying they have to interpret that as meaning repatriation is impermissible from a Catholic perspective, but surely we have to address it.
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Post by SedNomini on Nov 9, 2020 19:43:16 GMT
I like many of those ideas, but when it comes to repatriation, Catholics have to take into account both Gaudium Spes and Veritatis Splendor which list deportation as a sin against human dignity, something always and everywhere wrong. I'm not saying they have to interpret that as meaning repatriation is impermissible from a Catholic perspective, but surely we have to address it. This to me is the most pressing unanswered question. We need a good Catholic objection to mass-immigration as a weapon, and I think the case could then be made for mass-repatriation as an act of justice, and in the details then: financial support and incentives to leave, and continued support for a time on return of those repatriated. I think we need to not shy away from the reality of what is going on: www.bitchute.com/embed/enPheRMP9PIr/ We should also start calling them guests and visitors, implying the temporariness of it all, not fall into the trap of calling them Irish, or New Irish. If the Church is not what grounds this, then it will be White Nationalist Paganism that does.
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Post by rogerbuck on Nov 11, 2020 15:28:01 GMT
I like many of those ideas, but when it comes to repatriation, Catholics have to take into account both Gaudium Spes and Veritatis Splendor which list deportation as a sin against human dignity, something always and everywhere wrong. I'm not saying they have to interpret that as meaning repatriation is impermissible from a Catholic perspective, but surely we have to address it. This to me is the most pressing unanswered question. We need a good Catholic objection to mass-immigration as a weapon, and I think the case could then be made for mass-repatriation as an act of justice, and in the details then: financial support and incentives to leave, and continued support for a time on return of those repatriated. I think we need to not shy away from the reality of what is going on: www.bitchute.com/embed/enPheRMP9PIr/ We should also start calling them guests and visitors, implying the temporariness of it all, not fall into the trap of calling them Irish, or New Irish. If the Church is not what grounds this, then it will be White Nationalist Paganism that does. So much I would like to say here and I won't find time for a while to say it properly. But some disconnected items. 1. I don't understand some of the terminology above. Eg whitepills vs blackpills - any translations or concessions to old codgers like me who don't frequent the Internet much would be appreciated! 2. There is an essential idealism that you evince SedNomini that is most needed and refreshing eg: We need to step over obstacles that are in the way, that to fight would be all fire and fury signifying nothing. We don't need to bury the dead, we need to come out with positive statements, positive visions of the future, and just assume we represent the real Irish National Spirit and not get bogged down. If we don't represent the true National Spirit, then it is pointless getting on message boards to wax lyrical about the decline, eulogising is worthless Thank God for your fire! 3. Your point re: "White Nationalist Paganism" is striking. To expand on this, this seems most relevant to countries like France, not so much Ireland at the present. But in France I certainly see a massive struggle between two types of apparent conservatism. A genuine Catholic Cultural Conservatism vs materialistic racist paganism. Both appear conservative, inasmuch as they are anti-liberal. But the French materialistic, racist Paganism has actually conserved very little. At it's worst, all they have left is materialistic race and genetics. In France, I see a certain movement on the Right that goes something like this - four stages: Catholic-Royalist-Nationalist-Racist/Pagan To elaborate: FIRST STAGE: Catholic Counter Revolutionary (exemplified by de Maistre) SECOND STAGE: Royalist (exemplified by Maurras, who had lost his Faith, but fought for the Monarchy and what he called the real country rather than the fake 1789 secular country.) THIRD STAGE: Nationalist (exemplified by Jean Marie Le Pen, admittedly with lip service to the Church also anti abortion etc.) FOURTH STAGE: Pagan/Racist White Supremacist (exemplified by Guillame Faye of the Nouvelle Droite) In my opinion, there is a degeneration here. Figures like de Maistre represent a complete conservatism honouring Pope, King, French culture etc. But with each successive, degenerating stage, what is spiritual - not materialistic - is progressively stripped away. That is to say: NOT conserved. Not really Conservative, then. These are observations from France. I don't know that much about the Alt-Right emerging in the Anglosphere YouTube - though it is evident to me that it is very indebted to Pagan continental thinkers of the Nouvelle Droite like Guillame Faye and Julius Evola.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 11, 2020 15:32:32 GMT
Roger, "pills" are a very interesting new terminology-- relatively new. I've heard different accounts of their origin in online discourse. Some say the usage began in the men's right's movement, others say the Alt Right. They seem to have become fairly mainstream now.
The first two are from the film The Matrix. In the film, a red pill wakes you up from the computer simulation all humans are trapped in. So, "red pill" basically means enlightenment, waking up from the media and mainstream narrative. It's used as a verb, too. "I'm trying to redpill my best friend..."
"Blue pill" (again from the film) is the opposite-- it puts you back to sleep. People who buy into the mainstream narrative are bluepilled.
"Black pill" just means any argument or point which is depressing or pessimistic. So if you are "blackpilled" you are depressed about the state of affairs, or about some particular story or issue.
"White pill" is the opposite. It's anything optimistic.
I think I've got that right. I am a bit of a fogey too! I stand to be corrected if I'm not.
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Post by rogerbuck on Nov 11, 2020 15:33:53 GMT
I want to add that I don't mean to put out your fire, SedNomini!
This fire is beautiful and needed!
I am in an intensive story/process with the mighty French Conservative/psuedo-Conservative scene that gives me both hope and horror.
I want to repeat the word: mighty.
It's mighty growth fascinates me.
Ireland is many, many years behind I think and it's hard for me to imagine it catching on here. The Irish temperament seems to me so different from the French temperament which more naturally . . . my voice trails off.
So much to say. So little time!
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