|
Post by Antaine on Jul 2, 2018 11:27:29 GMT
I'm wondering if anyone here has heard of or experienced this, because apparently it's a bit of a problem.
My sister once applied for a job that she was more than capable of, but knew she didn't have the job as soon as she entered the interview. The interviewers were 2 Eastern European women, and even though they never directly said anything, my sister said she got negative feelings off them almost immediately. They came across as completely disinterested. Apparently there was also an Eastern European girl that went in before her who felt very optimistic.
On another occasion I was talking to someone about a particular kind of work, and he warned me about an "Eastern European mafia" that look out for their own. Basically, if Eastern Europeans get in HR or recruiting positions, they will purposely block Irish people; sometimes they will even block people not from their specific country, such as a Latvian being blocked by a Polish recruiter.
If something like this happens then that is an utter disgrace. Absolutely no one should be allowed to go to a country and then block the people of said country to favour their own. Really gives new meaning to the concept of "they're stealing out jobs." Anyone found guilty of such behaviour should immediately removed from the country and sent back where they came from. So, what exactly can you do in a situation like this?
By the way, just so everyone knows, I'm not talking about some private job like someone setting up their own business or something, and wanting to work with people like themselves. I'm talking about jobs like home care, working in a hospital, kitchen staff in universities/businesses, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 2, 2018 11:57:19 GMT
I'm wondering if anyone here has heard of or experienced this, because apparently it's a bit of a problem. My sister once applied for a job that she was more than capable of, but knew she didn't have the job as soon as she entered the interview. The interviewers were 2 Eastern European women, and even though they never directly said anything, my sister said she got negative feelings off them almost immediately. They came across as completely disinterested. Apparently there was also an Eastern European girl that went in before her who felt very optimistic. On another occasion I was talking to someone about a particular kind of work, and he warned me about an "Eastern European mafia" that look out for their own. Basically, if Eastern Europeans get in HR or recruiting positions, they will purposely block Irish people; sometimes they will even block people not from their specific country, such as a Latvian being blocked by a Polish recruiter. If something like this happens then that is an utter disgrace. Absolutely no one should be allowed to go to a country and then block the people of said country to favour their own. Really gives new meaning to the concept of "they're stealing out jobs." Anyone found guilty of such behaviour should immediately removed from the country and sent back where they came from. So, what exactly can you do in a situation like this? By the way, just so everyone knows, I'm not talking about some private job like someone setting up their own business or something, and wanting to work with people like themselves. I'm talking about jobs like home care, working in a hospital, kitchen staff in universities/businesses, etc. Antaine is the inaugural and current holder of the "Best Thread Title" award. This sort of thing doesn't surprise me. Human beings are essentially tribal beings. The idea that this could be conditioned out of people is pure hubris. I'm not saying it's not wrong. if it happens. (With all respect to your sister, there's no definite proof she was discriminated against.) It is wrong. But it doesn't surprise me, and I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some of it about. I've never experienced it myself.
|
|
|
Post by Antaine on Jul 2, 2018 13:26:51 GMT
Ah haha, thank you.
That's true, Maolsheachlann. The problem is it would be very difficult to prove and would most likely be met with accusations of racism or some such.
Of course I understand the mindset behind it; it just feels very wrong to basically be screwed over in your own country because of something like that. I know people say Eastern Europeans are hard workers, and I honestly don't doubt that, but it does beg the question how much of that claim is inflated when you see things like this; especially when we're being told Eastern Europeans are willing to do the jobs that others (supposedly) are not. Is it that Irish people aren't willing? Or aren't always getting the chance? Maybe a mix of both.
|
|
|
Post by servantofthechief on Jul 2, 2018 14:41:23 GMT
This isn't so much a problem as much as it is reality. HR and recruiting elements of companies and corporations are notorious vipers' nest and if it wasn't ethnocentrism that prevented your sister from getting the job, it'd be corporate newthink that she failed to adequately show obedience to that would have nix the position for her. There is no fair hiring anymore int he 21st century, the Easter Europeans are just looking out for their own, which, and I am going to be perfectly frank, is exactly why an Irish company shouldn't hire non Irish for their HR and recruitment departments.
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 2, 2018 19:36:28 GMT
Maybe its why various American cities had largely Irish (and corrupt) police forces after the Great Famine. Similarly Irish labourers made up a large strata of the workers who rebuilt war damaged Britain. I suspect new emigrants from the Carribean faced discrimination and or strong competition from the Irish.
Proving nepotism is hard to do. It is a natural phenomena to support your own and people may not even be aware they are doing anything wrong.
I have a friend involved in hotel management who tells me Irish people will not do basic hotel work or work unsocial hours. Were it not for east Europeans he would have closed down. He is a very patriotic man and is conscious of the need to get local Irish people but young people in particular do not want those jobs.
A very large percentage of jobs for people aged 25 -45,(around 40% I recall) created since the crash in Ireland have been taken up by non Irish people.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 20:33:07 GMT
This isn't so much a problem as much as it is reality. HR and recruiting elements of companies and corporations are notorious vipers' nest and if it wasn't ethnocentrism that prevented your sister from getting the job, it'd be corporate newthink that she failed to adequately show obedience to that would have nix the position for her. There is no fair hiring anymore int he 21st century, the Easter Europeans are just looking out for their own, which, and I am going to be perfectly frank, is exactly why an Irish company shouldn't hire non Irish for their HR and recruitment departments. Yes and many postings are formalities anyways with the winning candidate known in advance and the process run for the sake of satisfying employment laws.
|
|
|
Post by servantofthechief on Jul 2, 2018 21:49:17 GMT
Maybe its why various American cities had largely Irish (and corrupt) police forces after the Great Famine. Similarly Irish labourers made up a large strata of the workers who rebuilt war damaged Britain. I suspect new emigrants from the Carribean faced discrimination and or strong competition from the Irish. Proving nepotism is hard to do. It is a natural phenomena to support your own and people may not even be aware they are doing anything wrong. I have a friend involved in hotel management who tells me Irish people will not do basic hotel work or work unsocial hours. Were it not for east Europeans he would have closed down. He is a very patriotic man and is conscious of the need to get local Irish people but young people in particular do not want those jobs. A very large percentage of jobs for people aged 25 -45,(around 40% I recall) created since the crash in Ireland have been taken up by non Irish people. This is the millenial 'entitlement' that the boomers constantly refer to, when in reality it is better described as Millenial disgust. These young people were raised to go for university degrees to make an easier life, its what their parents wanted them to do because back when they were young, a degree meaning automatic success in life was true. The difference between 'our' boomer generation and the boomer generation in the rest of the west is that our old dolls and fellas had to work hard when they were going through life, and din't have the parasitical attitude to the young that American boomers had because in Ireland at least 'looking after your own' was the norm so of course you'd look after your parents in their old age and surround them with grandchildren, because that had always been the case until the mid-20th century in Ireland. So our millenials, and I am at the tail end of that, went into university in the noughties with wild dreams, and then promptly had their dreams violated and murdered in front of their eyes, had their social care slashed and told to basically F*** off by the republic which is why we had an entire generation flee to Australia for work (including my brother, my eldest brother was lucky enough to graduate before the crash and get a job in construction that he's managed to keep), so a lot of millenals being unwilling to do menial work because they resent it is understandable. We still need to make them do it eventually but their fury is understandable, other generations saw their dreams gradually die as the decades rolled past, the millenials got traumatised, and generation Z watched their older brothers and sisters get crushed by the harsh reality of it all and will grow up without such illusions. I wonder what they'll make of the place....
|
|
|
Post by Antaine on Jul 15, 2018 12:14:53 GMT
A lot of fair points made in this thread.
I would have to agree with Servant's point about non-Irish not getting HR jobs, but I would take it a step further and say non-Irish shouldn't be allowed in the Irish police either, for reasons which I feel should be obvious. The idea that someone who has recently come to a country should have more authority than someone who has been here all their life is nonsensical to me. I would extend the same to politics if there aren't already rules for such things. Otherwise it seems like a simple way for other countries to interfere with another country's politics.
|
|