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Post by Stephen on Sept 27, 2018 7:58:54 GMT
Ember days are reserved days during the year that traditionally comprise the Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday following St Lucy's Day, the first Sunday in Lent, Pentecost, and Holy Cross Day (two weeks ago). They trace back to the earliest days of the Church.
Our family has recently started to keep ember days. Does anyone else?
I worked out that Catholics following traditional fasting and abstinence practices do so for a a about 1/3 of the year.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 27, 2018 8:23:32 GMT
No, but I admire you for keeping the tradition alive. I do fast, but I don't follow this particular tradition, although I may take it up at some point.
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Post by Séamus on Sept 27, 2018 11:30:35 GMT
Ember days are reserved days during the year that traditionally comprise the Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday following St Lucy's Day, the first Sunday in Lent, Pentecost, and Holy Cross Day (two weeks ago). They trace back to the earliest days of the Church. Our family has recently started to keep ember days. Does anyone else? I worked out that Catholics following traditional fasting and abstinence practices do so for a a about 1/3 of the year. I keep them as far as I can but, as my parents go to the NovusOrdo Mass, it often doesn't work. Our regular priest usually opts for the full seven readings at the Ember Saturday Mass, but he gets through them as quickly as other priests take to say there three mandatory ones for that day. A lady was asking last Saturday wether unnecessary work was allowed on these days, as the first lesson from Leviticus included the verse 'You shall do no servile work' (not to be taken literally, said Fr.) Then there's another lady who can only come on Sunday(I think she goes to the ordinary form on weekdays) and yet she mentioned this month that she always keeps the fasts. Some missal-notes remark that ember days existed before the better-known Lent and Advent penances. It's one thing that the New English translation of the missal tried to re-include in the NovusOrdo on a smaller scale, I've not witnessed a liturgy of this sort myself.
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Post by Séamus on Sept 27, 2018 11:38:18 GMT
No, but I admire you for keeping the tradition alive. I do fast, but I don't follow this particular tradition, although I may take it up at some point. For the first time this week there's been a raven hanging around the roof of our (extraordinary form) chapel,I wonder could this mean anything?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 27, 2018 11:55:26 GMT
No, but I admire you for keeping the tradition alive. I do fast, but I don't follow this particular tradition, although I may take it up at some point. For the first time this week there's been a raven hanging around the roof of our (extraordinary form) chapel,I wonder could this mean anything? A carrion bird? Is it expecting Traditionalists to die off soon?!
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Post by Séamus on Sept 27, 2018 12:23:34 GMT
For the first time this week there's been a raven hanging around the roof of our (extraordinary form) chapel,I wonder could this mean anything? A carrion bird? Is it expecting Traditionalists to die off soon?! Didn't you say a few days ago that ravens were your spirit-animal?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 27, 2018 12:59:02 GMT
A carrion bird? Is it expecting Traditionalists to die off soon?! Didn't you say a few days ago that ravens were your spirit-animal? I don't remember saying it but I do have a strong affinity with crows. (I don't remember half the things I say/ write).
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Post by cato on Sept 27, 2018 21:40:56 GMT
I was reading on a Traddy site that although we weren't too sure what Ember days were the fact that Vatican ii abolished them meant they were a good thing that should be restored!
Eastern Orthodoxy has kept a vigorous discipline around fasting and penance. Catholic spokespeople often stress how close we are to Orthodoxy in ecumenical terms ,but they ignore that Orthodox commentators have criticised many of the liturgical and spiritual 'reforms' in western catholicism which have ironically deepened divisions.
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Post by Séamus on Sept 28, 2018 1:17:34 GMT
I was reading on a Traddy site that although we weren't too sure what Ember days were the fact that Vatican ii abolished them meant they were a good thing that should be restored! Eastern Orthodoxy has kept a vigorous discipline around fasting and penance. Catholic spokespeople often stress how close we are to Orthodoxy in ecumenical terms ,but they ignore that Orthodox commentators have criticised many of the liturgical and spiritual 'reforms' in western catholicism which have ironically deepened divisions. Most missals clearly stated the reasons for penances on those days- they roughly coincided with the for seasons. In more rural times, the importance of the proper weather and praying for the proper weather for each season was vital for survival of communities. And it's something that modern technology hasn't really conquered, we're still at the mercy of the elements
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Post by Séamus on Sept 28, 2018 1:19:16 GMT
I was reading on a Traddy site that although we weren't too sure what Ember days were the fact that Vatican ii abolished them meant they were a good thing that should be restored! Eastern Orthodoxy has kept a vigorous discipline around fasting and penance. Catholic spokespeople often stress how close we are to Orthodoxy in ecumenical terms ,but they ignore that Orthodox commentators have criticised many of the liturgical and spiritual 'reforms' in western catholicism which have ironically deepened divisions. Most missals clearly stated the reasons for penances on those days- they roughly coincided with the for seasons. In more rural times, the importance of the proper weather and praying for the proper weather for each season was vital for survival of communities. And it's something that modern technology hasn't really conquered, we're still at the mercy of the elements FOUR Seasons,I meant!
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Post by cato on Sept 28, 2018 10:50:55 GMT
Most missals clearly stated the reasons for penances on those days- they roughly coincided with the for seasons. In more rural times, the importance of the proper weather and praying for the proper weather for each season was vital for survival of communities. And it's something that modern technology hasn't really conquered, we're still at the mercy of the elements FOUR Seasons,I meant! The liturgical reformers coming from a modern European urban industrialised background had very little understanding of the rural medieval mindset that was very close to nature and a harvest away from plague and famine. Ironically the older view was much more aware of the value of nature and our environmental dependency than Archbishop Bugnini and his 1960s iconoclastic zealots who despised anything deemed medieval.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 4, 2018 11:36:07 GMT
The liturgical reformers coming from a modern European urban industrialised background had very little understanding of the rural medieval mindset that was very close to nature and a harvest away from plague and famine. Ironically the older view was much more aware of the value of nature and our environmental dependency than Archbishop Bugnini and his 1960s iconoclastic zealots who despised anything deemed medieval. One of my favourite quotation in this regard is from G.K. Chesterton's book on George Bernard Shaw, published in 1909: The average autochthonous Irishman is close to patriotism because he is close to the earth; he is close to domesticity because he is close to the earth; he is close to doctrinal theology and elaborate ritual because he is close to the earth. In short, he is close to the heavens because he is close to the earth.
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