|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Dec 10, 2018 14:53:05 GMT
I thought I would create a sticky thread for discussion of the Irish diaspora experience-- the Irish in England, America, Australia, and elsewhere.
All aspects of the diaspora experience apply, and everyone is welcome to post and comment-- you don't have to be a member of the diaspora, or Irish, or anything else.
It seems an important subject. I've commented elsewhere how the Irish abroad, and those of Irish descent (I have no problem calling them Irish too), seem to have more regard for their heritage than the Irish in Ireland.
I remember once, in America, visiting an Irish church called St. Patrick's whose congregation was very self-consciously Irish (though now I come to it, I can't exactly say how I know that-- I think someone told me, and certainly they were very interested in me coming from Ireland. There was an Irish pub nearby). Sadly, it had a reputation of a liberal Catholic church, and this seems all-too-typical of Irish-American Catholicism.
But, of course, I'm not just talking about Irish Catholicism but the Irish diaspora, Catholic and otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Dec 11, 2018 13:13:56 GMT
I thought I would create a sticky thread for discussion of the Irish diaspora experience-- the Irish in England, America, Australia, and elsewhere...etc. It took me a long time to realise that ethnicity is actually more important in some countries than the actual country people were born in. There are a lot of people from Malaysia in Perth, they might mention to you that someone is Chinese; if you mention that he or she is actually Malaysian they'll say 'his (sur)name is Cheng- he's Chinese!' And this seems the way- they'll usually refer to someone born in Malaysia as 'Eurasian','Chinese','Indian' whatever, only certain ones are identified as Malay, mostly, but not always, Muslim. It seems largely the same throughout Asia with anyone that has a Chinese name they get called Chinese wether there's any tangible connection with China itself or not. But: These nearly always DO celebrate Chinese tradition (and often religion, but obviously not the ones I'd usually come across). And these traditions have been kept outside China for a long, long time. Eurasians will also usually call someone Irish who has an Irish name, whether they are or not. Perhaps America is a bit like that. And there are definitely some Australians that identify staunchly with their Irishness, often the very ones that are also staunchly Australian and defenders of celebrating the British arrival as the National day and defenders too of the current flag(which Seinfeld-not sure if it was on an episode of his show- once famously remarked is really only the Union Jack at night). The Eureka Stockade, which came to be seen, not entirely correctly, as an Irish vs. English riot has left as one legacy, a flag apparently designed mostly by Irishmen that is now largely used by trade unions and anti-immigration groups of the military type. Unfortunate, because it would made a good national flag- something that's come into the psyche through the years rather than been designed out of air. Of course now politics would insist on an indigenous design as an alternative, despite aboriginal people never having had flags until recently. |
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Dec 11, 2018 14:00:29 GMT
I thought I would create a sticky thread for discussion of the Irish diaspora experience-- the Irish in England, America, Australia, and elsewhere...etc. It took me a long time to realise that ethnicity is actually more important in some countries than the actual country people were born in. There are a lot of people from Malaysia in Perth, they might mention to you that someone is Chinese; if you mention that he or she is actually Malaysian they'll say 'his (sur)name is Cheng- he's Chinese!' And this seems the way- they'll usually refer to someone born in Malaysia as 'Eurasian','Chinese','Indian' whatever, only certain ones are identified as Malay, mostly, but not always, Muslim. It seems largely the same throughout Asia with anyone that has a Chinese name they get called Chinese wether there's any tangible connection with China itself or not. But: These nearly always DO celebrate Chinese tradition (and often religion, but obviously not the ones I'd usually come across). And these traditions have been kept outside China for a long, long time. Eurasians will also usually call someone Irish who has an Irish name, whether they are or not. Perhaps America is a bit like that. And there are definitely some Australians that identify staunchly with their Irishness, often the very ones that are also staunchly Australian and defenders of celebrating the British arrival as the National day and defenders too of the current flag(which Seinfeld-not sure if it was on an episode of his show- once famously remarked is really only the Union Jack at night). The Eureka Stockade, which came to be seen, not entirely correctly, as an Irish vs. English riot has left as one legacy, a flag apparently designed mostly by Irishmen that is now largely used by trade unions and anti-immigration groups of the military type. Unfortunate, because it would made a good national flag- something that's come into the psyche through the years rather than been designed out of air. Of course now politics would insist on an indigenous design as an alternative, despite aboriginal people never having had flags until recently. I had never heard of the Eureka Stockade or its flag. Fascinating! |
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Dec 12, 2018 6:09:40 GMT
J I..etc..The Eureka Stockade, which came to be seen, not entirely correctly, as an Irish vs. English riot..etc. I had never heard of the Eureka Stockade or its flag. Fascinating! I think it was briefly dealt with fictionally in AGAINST THE WIND tv series, who's existence Mr Maolsheachlann may be too young to remember as I was quite young when it was aired, which was around the time WHAT'S ANOTHER YEAR won Eurovision, as I can recall RTÉ filming a Nativity play that Christmas with the series' lead, Mary Larkin, as Our Lady and Johnny Logan(who coincidentally has Australian connection also) as Joseph. A miniseries of the Stockade ,that I've only ever seen excerpts of, was made a little later- in contrast to the pretentious, exclusively Irish skirmish the earlier production depicted, they seem to have dramatised it into a full-scale war. What was often forgotten years ago, but historians are now highlighting, is that there was also significant input by the more Anglo-Irish to Australia also. One of Western Australia's first colonial governors was Irish as were many of the early officers that fought against the likes of the Kelly gang. A piece from one recent history- "Captain Charles Fitzgerald, the governor who assumed office in 1848 remained neutral in the bishops dispute, he was supportive of Serra and did what he could to help his cause. Born in Ireland, Fitzgerald was a naval officer with an autocratic temperament who, unlike past administrators and despite being Anglican himself was quite open to the presence of the Catholic church. (bishop) Serra was invited to Government House for dinner and was even asked to give a blessing to those assembled" cf,martin griver by odhran o'brien |
|
|
|
Post by kj on Dec 31, 2018 12:38:22 GMT
I left Ireland in March 2011. I had to return home for a brief period this summer, but am currently abroad again. I may or may not have to return next year. I am not sure if this makes me part of the 'diaspora'.
I did not really get involved with the Irish community when I lived in London. The other main type of London Irish is the younger person who views Ireland with horror and thinks London is a liberal mecca, because it's so 'tolerant' and 'multicultural', you know the type, those who write columns for the IT's Generation Emigration.
When I visited Ireland for holidays I found it to be a welcome respite from the pointless rush of London - when I had to spend longer at home this summer I was dismayed. It seemed to me that there was nothing whatsoever going on bar smug and self-satisfied materialism. Plus the immigration and change to the populace after seven years was quite striking. My overall impression was of a country that had entirely sold its soul and become a vacuous hub of greed and boring materialism.
To me, the only encouraging sign recently is the National Party, although I disagree with them about the EU and the death penalty. Lately they have had some very good social and cultural analyses on their website that I recommend to all.
Personally I feel more like being in eternal exile than having to return home for good. I feel very alienated from what's going on now, plus there is not the slightest chance of me ever being able to afford property in contemporary Ireland.
I may have to align myself with the venerable tradition of the Wandering Irishman!
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 11, 2019 18:14:34 GMT
There's an inspiring story in this week's Ireland's Own about Fr. Francis Douglas, a New Zealand-born Columban priest whose mother was from Sligo. He was a missionary in the Philippines during the Japanese occupation and refused to break the seal of confession despite water torture. The Japanese soldiers believed he had heard the confessions of resistance fighters. He was presumably murdered but his body was never found.
|
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Jan 12, 2019 4:49:32 GMT
There's an inspiring story in this week's Ireland's Own about Fr. Francis Douglas, a New Zealand-born Columban priest whose mother was from Sligo. He was a missionary in the Philippines during the Japanese occupation and refused to break the seal of confession despite water torture. The Japanese soldiers believed he had heard the confessions of resistance fighters. He was presumably murdered but his body was never found. I think the Sydney diocesan weekly did an article about him last year, although I didn't take note of the name. The Society certainly had heroic men in it's heyday I saw something yesterday about a new Great Famine memorial in Glasgow; Higgins unveiled one in West Australia last year. |
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Jan 19, 2019 8:02:06 GMT
Although lifesavers are not exclusively Australian, the bronzed lifeguard has certainly become iconic, alongside the bronzed Anzac and sunburnt Swagman(who, as someone pointed out can't seem to be simply bronzed). I read today that the Surf Lifesaving Club of Trigg suburb of Perth was founded after a misfortune concerning a St John of God Sister.
"A new monument has been erected in Trigg to commemorate the brave actions of Fredrick Charles Floyd who died trying to save an Irish nun in July 1947. Sr Chrysostom was standing on a big rock looking out to the sea when an undercurrent swept her from the rock and washed her away one report of accident said. The weather now turned nasty. The wind and rain poured down. One of the sisters ran up the road for help. A car stopped. A man and his 12 year old son ran to the beach. The man never hesitated but jumped in and swam towards the drowning nun. He managed to reach her but could not bring her back. Tragically he, too, drowned in his way back to shore. This brave man was Fredrick Charles Floyd, a Freemason. His funeral was the first Freemason funeral attended by Catholic priests"
An historical record mentioned that four other sisters besides Sr Mary Chrysostom went to Trigg that day. It mentions 'nuns are well known to North Beach and Trigg residents for their all-year-around swimming'. There was a slight difference in the account as it said 'while the nuns WERE SWIMMING clouds...and wind developed'
|
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Jun 26, 2019 7:43:20 GMT
A bit I read in a paper today :
"Irish immigrant Martin O'Meara left Collie in 1915 to fight for his adopted country at the battle of Somme and other battlefields on the Western Front where he earned a Victoria Cross for his valour..."
Comment:Collie was a coal mining town and is still quite small. Being down near 'The Bite' the climate would be as European as the state gives
"...O'Meara repeatedly went out into no man's land to rescue wounded comrades and is credited with saving at least 20 men. However when he eventually returned to WA after the conclusion of WWI the real battle began - a battle against mental illness that would last until his death aged 50 at Claremont Mental Hospital"
Comment: admist the world's changes this hospital in plush Claremont suburb is still there
"...biographer Iain Loftus believes O'Meara's troubled final years led him to being forgotten by history,but that is all about to change with the National Museum of Ireland set to borrow his VC for a coming exibition that celebrates the connection between Ireland and Australia. This is a pretty big deal and will be the first time a VC has been allowed to leave the country for an exibition"
Victoria Crosses are classified as national treasures
|
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Aug 31, 2019 9:17:05 GMT
A movie produced in Tasmania about an Irish convict has received much press this week. The Nightingale is reportedly so brutally violent that even critics had to leave the cinema during previews. The title role is actually played by an Aussie,not sure why she's a 'nightingale'. As the bird does't exist in the Southern Hemisphere it obviously symbolises the character somehow.
For an island that boasts Errol Flynn,the Crown Princess of Denmark,a legendary Warner Brothers character and (probably erroneously) Merle Oberon,films made in or about Tasmania seem rarer than Irish ballads that complain about Van Diemen's Land,one composed as recently as the HBlock Hunger Strike.
|
|
