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Post by cato on Jun 20, 2019 9:56:26 GMT
What is deeply insidious is the role of catholic education in creating much of this ideology. Most of the 90% + of young people who enthusiastically voted to strip the unborn of the right not to be killed were the products of catholic schools. Most of them now abandon their faith before they are 12 if they ever go in the first place.
The blindness of the leaders of the church to the abject failure of catholic education in passing on the catholic faith is startling. When you consider individuals like feminist Katherine Zappone were catholic educationalists things look more sinister but less surprising.
When you also consider the vast amounts of money , personal and property devoted to catholic education it is insane we continue with a strategy that wrecks the faith of the little ones.
As I write a catholic primary school in Wicklow has announced gender neutral school uniforms which will see little boys have the right to wear skirts . I thought the whole point of uniforms was to impose uniformity? (And to be a leveller of social distincions)
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Post by Séamus on Jun 21, 2019 2:37:16 GMT
What is deeply insidious is the role of catholic education in creating much of this ideology. Most of the 90% + of young people who enthusiastically voted to strip the unborn of the right not to be killed were the products of catholic schools. Most of them now abandon their faith before they are 12 if they ever go in the first place. The blindness of the leaders of the church to the abject failure of catholic education in passing on the catholic faith is startling. When you consider individuals like feminist Katherine Zappone were catholic educationalists things look more sinister but less surprising. When you also consider the vast amounts of money , personal and property devoted to catholic education it is insane we continue with a strategy that wrecks the faith of the little ones. As I write a catholic primary school in Wicklow has announced gender neutral school uniforms which will see little boys have the right to wear skirts . I thought the whole point of uniforms was to impose uniformity? (And to be a leveller of social distincions) One Catholic school in eastern Australia is allowing (encouraging by the sounds of it) two teenage students born female to dress and identify as male in every way. Bear in mind that Catholic schools in Australia are totally church owned and this one actually still has a male-religious as principal, who claims to have the support of his Bishop with this; his Bishop being of Chinese background, which is neither here nor there, but it debunks a perception that these theologies and compromises are only coming from the 'old Catholic church' or the 'European church'
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 21, 2019 8:26:00 GMT
In my own primary school (which wasn't even a Catholic school, though religion class was all Catholic and it did have Sunday Mass in Irish), some boys were punished for putting on girls' skirts during a hurling match by being made to wear them in school the next day. A different world now.
On Gemma O'Doherty's channel (which I'm sorry to say gets zanier all the time), an elderly priest was interviewed on the matter-- I don't know whether he was attached to the school, or the parish, or what. Anyway, he was criticizing the policy, but allowing that, if a boy took it into his own head to come into school wearing a skirt, nobody should criticize him or say anything to him. Well, no, that's not really OK either. The pressure to compromise is so enormous and I'm sure that priest was being very brave indeed just speaking out to the extent he did.
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Post by cato on Jun 21, 2019 11:01:36 GMT
In my own primary school (which wasn't even a Catholic school, though religion class was all Catholic and it did have Sunday Mass in Irish), some boys were punished for putting on girls' skirts during a hurling match by being made to wear them in school the next day. A different world now. On Gemma O'Doherty's channel (which I'm sorry to say gets zanier all the time), an elderly priest was interviewed on the matter-- I don't know whether he was attached to the school, or the parish, or what. Anyway, he was criticizing the policy, but allowing that, if a boy took it into his own head to come into school wearing a skirt, nobody should criticize him or say anything to him. Well, no, that's not really OK either. The pressure to compromise is so enormous and I'm sure that priest was being very brave indeed just speaking out to the extent he did. Teenagers being teenagers love to undermine rules and many go through phases of seeking to see how far they can go to adapt uniforms to suit themselves. I suspect a few may use the latitude now being offered to defy the whole concept of uniforms. If a boy wears a skirt as a defiant gesture who can object without being accused of being a hateful bigot?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 7, 2019 13:28:55 GMT
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Post by cato on Aug 7, 2019 21:40:06 GMT
I think the modern Irish establishment are going the same way as the conservative (1950s) Dutch Catholics and the equally conservative Nationalist Quebecois in Canada. Both areas now virtue signal by displaying radical opinions and adolescent poses on a wide variety of socio-economic topics. Why does no one investigate what happened to the old live and let live tolerant liberalism of the recent past that claimed to champion pluralism? The new version is bossy , intolerant of devious thought crime and organises witch hunts to deprive "heretics" of their good name and employment.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 26, 2019 15:00:21 GMT
I remember being very interested in this advertisement when it was shown in cinemas back in 2002. I'd forgotten Michael Fassbender was in it.
It shows an Irish person walking along the centre of Dublin, looking at tourists who are wearing shamrock top hats and buying kitschy souvenirs in Irish gift shops. Then he goes into a pub and reflects on "what it really is to be Irish" (as the captions tell us), looking dreamily into the middle distance, before "having the craic" with his friend over two pints of Guinness.
I remember feeling very frustrated and irritated when I saw this ad. Not at the ad itself (which at least had its mind on higher things than most ads), but at the attitude it reflects, which I think is all too common.
The idea is that there is some kind of abstract "essence of Irishness", which can be considered apart from culture or language or way of life or anything like that.
People seem to have the idea that we can become a very open, globalized, consumerist, cosmopolitan society while remaining distinctively Irish. Because of this abstract intangible essence called Irishness. No effort is required to preserve it.
I don't really believe in such a thing, except as a kind of legacy of the factors which shaped it. If we have more or less the same way of life, culture, entertainment, etc. as the rest of the world, I expect the "Irish character" will evaporate anyway.
I think the tourists actually have the right idea here, albeit in a rather cartoony way. Wearing emerald trousers or a leprechaun hat is at least something tangible. (Admittedly, the guy is going into a pub and buying a Guinness, which is rather typically Irish. But the whole tone of the ad seems to suggest that he would be just as Irish in a café drinking a cappuccino.)
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Post by Séamus on Sept 8, 2019 8:57:39 GMT
I remember being very interested in this advertisement when it was shown in cinemas back in 2002. I'd forgotten Michael Fassbender was in it. It shows an Irish person..etc..) It's not like Ireland's finance sector post-millenium has been a flawless pillar. I happened to see a still of Fassbender as Macbeth yesterday as part of an historical author's article about her own novel and research of the real Macbeths,who she declares innocent of nearly all crimes they're generally associated with. An interesting Irish connection is the mention that the royal couple "travelled on pilgrimage to Rome in 1050 where they were recorded by the chronicler Marianus Scotus as scattering gold coins to the masses" This particular Marianus Scotus would be Blessed Marianus of Regensburg,generally accepted as having been born in Ireland ('Scotus' still designated someone Irish at this time) and remembered largely for his record of a Rome pilgrimage.
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