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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 20, 2019 16:16:57 GMT
I've been off work (and mostly offline) recently, since my father died. Interacting with many people who I might not have interacted with, normally, and taken somewhat out of my routine.
Mortality, especially the loss of loved ones, always gives us a fresh perspective on life, and reaffirms what is important.
I must say, the experience has only given me a greater sense of how important it is for Irish conservatives to keep swimming against the tide, and to keep an Irish conservative and national tradition alive.
It's so easy to be gas-lighted (gas-lit?) if we are isolated, to think that we must simply be oddballs who haven't got with the programme of what is so self-evident and obvious to so many of our contemporaries.
I think community-building is essential. This forum is a good example. So are other online spaces, similar to it. Best of all would be real, face-to-face groups which got together and built real human bonds based on conservative values.
Cultural Marxism (or whatever you want to term the ruling ideology) is so ever-present, all-pervading and insidious today that it takes a real, sustained effort to keep any toehold free of it. Irish Catholicism and Irish nationalism themselves have been deeply infected with it. Let's keep the fire burning. It's crucial.
I guess this is a strange thread to start, but I didn't know where else to put it. I may add further thoughts.
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Post by Tomas on May 20, 2019 19:03:27 GMT
Just went away from a lecture arranged within work here at the local municipal archives and museum and public library. It was a thing that touched a little conversely on the topic. It was by and about the Sudet German immigrants that left Bohemia close after the Chamberlein treaty in 1938. The families that came to our region then were from the small but quite solid Social Democratic minority opposition against the Sudet Nazis (more than 60 per cent supported the Nazi Party of Bohemia at that time!) and their descendants made up the bulk of attendants among the others of our ordinary public. The lecture room was absolutely packed with seventy people there, and most staying on for lots of talks after full time in a kind of quietly soft "human" atmosphere. And the Conservative link, in my mind, was simply the sentiments conveyed by this average mainstream Social Democratic group. What they felt most important to bring on as a message was, as one of the speakers summed it up towards the end of the lecture part - the values of family and friendship! One could only wish that their progressive Swedish contemporaries today would say something simliar instead of eroding even more into lies. Even if the historical Left certainly had their indisputable flaws, these kind of mainstream greyish old Social Democrats at least show some sense of broad tradition intact. I wonder if this might be similar to what the DUP does in Northern Ireland? Can it be that some old school Protestants even can be labelled "Conservative" in the widened sense, on such areas like the value of keeping old type family together? And if so, can they also be allies in ANY way against the powerfilled machinations of the elusive New world order?
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Post by cato on May 21, 2019 12:07:46 GMT
Following on from Thomas's reference to the DUP I noticed that in the Euro election in Northern Ireland the only pro life social conservatives are DUP and two other unionist candidates. The SDLP has gone the way of Southern nationalist parties and is broadly pro choice. It is ironic that the community that put its' long term faith in pro-natalism during the dark days of unionist hegemony has now politically embraced pro abortion policies.
It has been pointed out by Maolsheachlann in other places Irish people are remarkably conservative when it comes to supporting party labels even when those parties abandon core beliefs. In fairness they abandon those beliefs if their focus groups tell them this might advantage them politically at the ballot box. Social conservatives are homeless. The liberal Fine Gael has also shown itself as useless in relation to providing housing and their core reputation for fiscal prudence also looks shaky at this stage.
A year on from the Repeal catastrophe I think we are in the middle of a liberal tidal wave which will last at least a generation. It would appear many social revolutions last one or two generations before a reaction sets in. Ireland is now among the most extreme liberal leftist places on earth and is a cold place for traditional minded people.
It is important conservative voices don't let themselves be silenced. Free speech is useless if people don't exercise their right to question , to challenge and to offer alternatives. Politicly we are like tiny mustard seeds. Insignificant at the moment we may eventually have our day.
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Post by cato on May 21, 2019 12:13:25 GMT
I think community-building is essential. This forum is a good example. So are other online spaces, similar to it. Best of all would be real, face-to-face groups which got together and built real human bonds based on conservative values.
Cultural Marxism (or whatever you want to term the ruling ideology) is so ever-present, all-pervading and insidious today that it takes a real, sustained effort to keep any toehold free of it. Irish Catholicism and Irish nationalism themselves have been deeply infected with it. Let's keep the fire burning. It's crucial.
I guess this is a strange thread to start, but I didn't know where else to put it. I may add further thoughts.[/quote]
I agree strongly Maolsheachlann. Part of our problem is that most of us nowadays are busy individualists who have become more and more isolated which can lead to apathy and cynical despair when faced with the huge changes in the surrounding culture and society.
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Post by rogerbuck on May 28, 2019 23:12:26 GMT
I must say, the experience has only given me a greater sense of how important it is for Irish conservatives to keep swimming against the tide, and to keep an Irish conservative and national tradition alive. It's so easily to be gas-lighted (gas-lit?) if we are isolated, to think that we must simply be oddballs who haven't got with the programme of what is so self-evident and obvious to so many of our contemporaries. I think community-building is essential. This forum is a good example. So are other online spaces, similar to it. Best of all would be real, face-to-face groups which got together and built real human bonds based on conservative values. Cultural Marxism (or whatever you want to term the ruling ideology) is so ever-present, all-pervading and insidious today that it takes a real, sustained effort to keep any toehold free of it. Irish Catholicism and Irish nationalism themselves have been deeply infected with it. Let's keep the fire burning. It's crucial. I guess this is a strange thread to start, but I didn't know where else to put it. I may add further thoughts. This cheers me. And I regret I feel too inarticulate to offer any more right now, except a resounding "amen" to the profound importance of this.
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Post by rogerbuck on May 29, 2019 7:46:40 GMT
Morning has broken and I remain very struck by this: Mortality, especially the loss of loved ones, always gives us a fresh perspective on life, and reaffirms what is important. I must say, the experience has only given me a greater sense of how important it is for Irish conservatives to keep swimming against the tide, and to keep an Irish conservative and national tradition alive. Mal, I hesitate to say this in a public space, not wanting to "poke around" in something so very sad, tender, private. But you appear to be alluding to a "fresh perspective" bringing a "greater sense" of the importance of what you're attempting here. If it were possible in a public space to say anything more as to the emergence within you of this renewed, deepened sense of importance, even how it has emerged, I would be very interested to hear. I realise, of course, that this may not be possible or at all appropriate in public, given your great loss and the need to be with that ... But I hope you will not mind if I publicly declare that, having somewhat watched the growth of your thinking over years, I have always looked to its future.Even expecting that the track you were on would develop, gaining, again, "renewed, deepened ... importance". So this does not surprise. I may not feel able to participate much in this forum, and am feeling particularly mute, inarticulate at the moment with nearly all things internet, but I BELIEVE in what you are doing with this and where you are headed with it. And now a paradox. Although my voice does feel almost paralysed with internet fora, Facebook, etc, I have poured out my voice in an upcoming video, after returning from nearly three months away in England and France. I will be posting that video at this forum - maybe even in this very thread. Because it definitely relates and I think it has significant convergences with what you are getting at here, with this project I see you developing, as well as I think perhaps significant divergences, too. C.G. Jung was not wrong about synchronicity ...
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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 29, 2019 9:29:36 GMT
Mal, I hesitate to say this in a public space, not wanting to "poke around" in something so very sad, tender, private. But you appear to be alluding to a "fresh perspective" bringing a "greater sense" of the importance of what you're attempting here. If it were possible in a public space to say anything more as to the emergence within you of this renewed, deepened sense of importance, even how it has emerged, I would be very interested to hear. No problem at all, Roger. Thanks for asking. This is what I meant: it's often said that the lesser things in life pale into insignificance when viewed against the perspective of mortality and bereavement. We come across statements like: "On your deathbed, you won't wish you'd spent more time at the office". So it was theoretically possible that the experience of losing my father might have made me see my conservatism as being trivial, or a distraction from what is really important in life. It might have made me think: "Only PEOPLE matter, causes and ideas are nothing." But it didn't make me feel like that at all. In fact, the experience of bereavement just reinforced to me the importance of tradition, heritage, nation, family, and all those things conservatives hold dear and seek to protect. For instance: nationalism. My father was intensely patriotic. My family were all saddened that we didn't get to hold an Irish wake for him, that he reposed in a funeral home instead. (The logistics were just impossible.) But we were very grateful we could find an Irish-speaking priest to celebrate the funeral Mass (he wasn't an Irish speaker himself, but he actually helped set up the Irish language school I attended). The music at his funeral was all Irish music. At the reception afterwards, friends and family were singing Irish folk songs for hours. I didn't join in myself as I know few of them, to my shame-- it made me resolve to learn more. The shortness of human life, which we experience most powerfully in bereavement, only makes more manifest our need to belong to a community of the living, the dead, and the unborn-- not something as general as "the human race", but a PARTICULAR tradition. A nation, in our case. Otherwise we are "the flies of a summer", as Burke put it. Another example: family. When someone dies, it makes everybody realize the importance of family. In this case, I found myself talking to cousins and other relatives that I hadn't spoken to since my childhood, and meeting younger relatives I'd never actually met. Our way of life today puts enormous strain on the nuclear family, and even more on the extended family. At my father's funeral, there were many remarks (as I'm sure there are at many funerals) on the fact that we only see each other when somebody dies. And yet, it IS family that comes to funerals, including relatives you've never met. All the family stories and shared memories come out of mothballs. Resemblances are noted across generations. Christmas and Halloween parties of long ago are recalled and lingered over. So there were many resolutions that we would try to keep in better touch with each other and not drift even further apart (a particular danger now, as my father was something of a family patriarch). I need hardly extend these reflections to religion. Even non-believers and agnostics seem to cherish the rituals of religion in the face of death. To believers, death and bereavement only confirm the supreme importance of faith. So I guess what I'm saying is that losing my father didn't suddenly give me the perspective that only people are important, and that causes and ideas are trivial. To me, causes and ideas are important because people are important. Because tradition, heritage, family, nation, faith, reverence, etc. etc. are essential to a rich and flourishing human life, even though many of our contemporaries seem to think that these things are disposable, or even that they are shackles. And that arguing in favour of all these things is a way of loving our contemporaries, even when they think we are hate-filled killjoys trying to make everyone miserable.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jun 1, 2019 11:21:53 GMT
Thank you, Mal. Response very much appreciated. I was struck by this: it was theoretically possible that the experience of losing my father might have made me see my conservatism as being trivial, or a distraction from what is really important in life. And why ...? I am going to be frank here, maybe uncomfortably personal. If it is uncomfortable, please let me know. I'll think twice before doing this again. For I find myself thinking of a split between my heart and my rational mind. My own rational mind is forever thinking things that go a bit like this: "it's theoretically possible what I feel in my heart is completely wrong." But I think there are times, like the one we are speaking of in terms of your father's funeral, where we can be more more existentially aware, more EXISTENTIALLY SERIOUS as to what our life is really about. I have gone through something like that, as related in the video, which, bizarrely it may seem, I am posting as a contribution to this thread. But reading what you say I cannot help but wonder if your heart knew these things all along, but your head didn't take it seriously enough. IOW if you suffer a split akin to my own. Here is something I've felt for years now: These things invoked here are hardly trivial or secondary to your life. Au contraire: they relate to your vocation ... a vocation I see growing and developing over years to come. You bring, as I've said privately to you and I hope you won't mind my saying now publicly (??) an unusual combination of love of your country, real and growing erudition, deep faith, and an original questioning line of independent thought and observation that doesn't run in conservative or traditionalist "groupthink" or "cookie cutter" lines. (Of course, I know you are not a traditionalist, as I am, but you do find yourself in the position of engaging with traditionalists.) Forgive me: I cannot help but think you are existentially in touch with your vocation here and that the future of the Irish Conservative movement needs that vocation.As for myself, I find myself thinking very much, too, of the future of the Irish Conservative movement. Very much. And how I've come to something more existential myself lately, as reflected in this video, which I dare to see as a contribution to this ... The video appears at first about the Holy Virgin, about France, but those who are patient will see that it turns more and more to themes that are relevant to this thread, I believe:
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Post by cato on Jun 3, 2019 19:49:39 GMT
Thank you, Mal. Response very much appreciated. I was struck by this: it was theoretically possible that the experience of losing my father might have made me see my conservatism as being trivial, or a distraction from what is really important in life. And why ...? I am going to be frank here, maybe uncomfortably personal. If it is uncomfortable, please let me know. I'll think twice before doing this again. For I find myself thinking of a split between my heart and my rational mind. My own rational mind is forever thinking things that go a bit like this: "it's theoretically possible what I feel in my heart is completely wrong." But I think there are times, like the one we are speaking of in terms of your father's funeral, where we can be more more existentially aware, more EXISTENTIALLY SERIOUS as to what our life is really about. I have gone through something like that, as related in the video, which, bizarrely it may seem, I am posting as a contribution to this thread. But reading what you say I cannot help but wonder if your heart knew these things all along, but your head didn't take it seriously enough. IOW if you suffer a split akin to my own. Here is something I've felt for years now: These things invoked here are hardly trivial or secondary to your life. Au contraire: they relate to your vocation ... a vocation I see growing and developing over years to come. You bring, as I've said privately to you and I hope you won't mind my saying now publicly (??) an unusual combination of love of your country, real and growing erudition, deep faith, and an original questioning line of independent thought and observation that doesn't run in conservative or traditionalist "groupthink" or "cookie cutter" lines. (Of course, I know you are not a traditionalist, as I am, but you do find yourself in the position of engaging with traditionalists.) Forgive me: I cannot help but think you are existentially in touch with your vocation here and that the future of the Irish Conservative movement needs that vocation.As for myself, I find myself thinking very much, too, of the future of the Irish Conservative movement. Very much. And how I've come to something more existential myself lately, as reflected in this video, which I dare to see as a contribution to this ... The video appears at first about the Holy Virgin, about France, but those who are patient will see that it turns more and more to themes that are relevant to this thread, I believe: I have been a bit pessimistic recently as to the standing of Irish conservatism.I do think it is important to not fall into a trap of simple negativity or resentment. We are weak politically and most people seem to be happy with social liberalism but core values of faith nation family and human dignity as mentioned above by Maolsheachlann above are of enduring value. They are also profoundly humanist in their fullest sense. The Conservative revolutions in the USA and the UK of the 1980s were unexpected but were the partial result of a battle for ideas in the political world long dominated by leftist liberalism. Minority views can become mainstream given the leadership and the circumstances.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 4, 2019 10:23:26 GMT
Thank you, Mal. Response very much appreciated. I was struck by this: it was theoretically possible that the experience of losing my father might have made me see my conservatism as being trivial, or a distraction from what is really important in life. And why ...? I am going to be frank here, maybe uncomfortably personal. If it is uncomfortable, please let me know. I'll think twice before doing this again. For I find myself thinking of a split between my heart and my rational mind. My own rational mind is forever thinking things that go a bit like this: "it's theoretically possible what I feel in my heart is completely wrong." But I think there are times, like the one we are speaking of in terms of your father's funeral, where we can be more more existentially aware, more EXISTENTIALLY SERIOUS as to what our life is really about. I have gone through something like that, as related in the video, which, bizarrely it may seem, I am posting as a contribution to this thread. But reading what you say I cannot help but wonder if your heart knew these things all along, but your head didn't take it seriously enough. IOW if you suffer a split akin to my own. Here is something I've felt for years now: These things invoked here are hardly trivial or secondary to your life. Au contraire: they relate to your vocation ... a vocation I see growing and developing over years to come. You bring, as I've said privately to you and I hope you won't mind my saying now publicly (??) an unusual combination of love of your country, real and growing erudition, deep faith, and an original questioning line of independent thought and observation that doesn't run in conservative or traditionalist "groupthink" or "cookie cutter" lines. (Of course, I know you are not a traditionalist, as I am, but you do find yourself in the position of engaging with traditionalists.) Forgive me: I cannot help but think you are existentially in touch with your vocation here and that the future of the Irish Conservative movement needs that vocation.As for myself, I find myself thinking very much, too, of the future of the Irish Conservative movement. Very much. And how I've come to something more existential myself lately, as reflected in this video, which I dare to see as a contribution to this ... The video appears at first about the Holy Virgin, about France, but those who are patient will see that it turns more and more to themes that are relevant to this thread, I believe: Thanks so much, Roger. I'm very touched by those kind words. And congratulations on another video, which I see has accummulated quite a lot of views already-- something I've learned isn't easy, from dipping my own toe into YouTube!
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 4, 2019 10:25:09 GMT
Thank you, Mal. Response very much appreciated. I was struck by this: it was theoretically possible that the experience of losing my father might have made me see my conservatism as being trivial, or a distraction from what is really important in life. And why ...? I am going to be frank here, maybe uncomfortably personal. If it is uncomfortable, please let me know. I'll think twice before doing this again. For I find myself thinking of a split between my heart and my rational mind. My own rational mind is forever thinking things that go a bit like this: "it's theoretically possible what I feel in my heart is completely wrong." But I think there are times, like the one we are speaking of in terms of your father's funeral, where we can be more more existentially aware, more EXISTENTIALLY SERIOUS as to what our life is really about. I have gone through something like that, as related in the video, which, bizarrely it may seem, I am posting as a contribution to this thread. But reading what you say I cannot help but wonder if your heart knew these things all along, but your head didn't take it seriously enough. IOW if you suffer a split akin to my own. Here is something I've felt for years now: These things invoked here are hardly trivial or secondary to your life. Au contraire: they relate to your vocation ... a vocation I see growing and developing over years to come. You bring, as I've said privately to you and I hope you won't mind my saying now publicly (??) an unusual combination of love of your country, real and growing erudition, deep faith, and an original questioning line of independent thought and observation that doesn't run in conservative or traditionalist "groupthink" or "cookie cutter" lines. (Of course, I know you are not a traditionalist, as I am, but you do find yourself in the position of engaging with traditionalists.) Forgive me: I cannot help but think you are existentially in touch with your vocation here and that the future of the Irish Conservative movement needs that vocation.As for myself, I find myself thinking very much, too, of the future of the Irish Conservative movement. Very much. And how I've come to something more existential myself lately, as reflected in this video, which I dare to see as a contribution to this ... The video appears at first about the Holy Virgin, about France, but those who are patient will see that it turns more and more to themes that are relevant to this thread, I believe: Thanks so much for those kind words, Roger. I greatly appreciate them. And congratulations on another successful video-- I'm learning from my own ventures into YouTube that it's not so easy!
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Post by rogerbuck on Jun 9, 2019 10:48:01 GMT
I have been a bit pessimistic recently as to the standing of Irish conservatism.I do think it is important to not fall into a trap of simple negativity or resentment. We are weak politically and most people seem to be happy with social liberalism but core values of faith nation family and human dignity as mentioned above by Maolsheachlann above are of enduring value. They are also profoundly humanist in their fullest sense. The Conservative revolutions in the USA and the UK of the 1980s were unexpected but were the partial result of a battle for ideas in the political world long dominated by leftist liberalism. Minority views can become mainstream given the leadership and the circumstances. Yes, cato, I understand the feelings of pessimism very well. And all your very good points ... Nonetheless, the subject of this thread is very important to me. I can't help wanting to see in Ireland what, as I said on the video, I saw in France: a potent movement of deeply orthodox and traditional Catholics who were _also_ deeply occupied with the national question. I found in these people a very, very penetrating, even genuinely brilliant awareness of Globalism and GAFA (Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, of course. I've seen it with further letters attached too, such as M for Microsoft ... ) I am with so much that I cannot easily articulate. The culture of French Catholic resistance has certainly grown over many years, nourished, in significant measure, by what Archbishop Lefebvre began in the 1970s. While I consider ABL's 1988 break with Rome a tragedy, I think so, so much is owed to French traditionalists in the 1970s and that the present nationalist consciousness in France cannot be separated from that. Which indicates one reason I find what ICKSP is doing in Limerick so moving and hopefully in other Irish cities as well. (Liberal resistance to TLM reflects, I think, an awareness that TLM is very, very potent in creating the kind of rich traditional orientation that liberalism objects to. A point I try to make in my big book ... So much might be said. And I can't say much at all online ... quite overwhelmed. (A comment I won't explain, but which is directed toward good people who may feel ignored by me.) I think I will just echo your last thought, cato ... "Minority views can become mainstream given the leadership and the circumstances. " Indeed. The French circumstances entail ABL whatever the 1988 tragedy ...
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Post by rogerbuck on Jun 26, 2019 2:39:35 GMT
Reasons to be cheerful?
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Post by kj on Jun 27, 2019 12:44:07 GMT
Maolsheachlann, it's been a while since I checked in here and just saw this thread. I just wanted to pass on my condolences for your loss. Karl
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 27, 2019 14:21:19 GMT
Maolsheachlann, it's been a while since I checked in here and just saw this thread. I just wanted to pass on my condolences for your loss. Karl Thanks, Karl. I greatly appreciate it. I hope things are well with you.
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