|
|
Post by cato on Jun 29, 2019 19:37:37 GMT
I have been reflecting on what Irish conservatives do in a day to day practical fashion in a society that is becoming more and more radical and liberal. I was prompted by a remark Kj made on another thread about conservative moaning. While I believe "moaning" is necessary ie criticising the prevailing madness , it cannot be the only activity we engage in.
I try to shop conservatively. I have stopped buying the Irish newspapers that were the cheerleaders for striping the unborn of the right to life. I try to buy Irish products - harder than you think. My doctor has ordered me to eat more fish. The Ballymaclare Salmon from Cork in my local Tesco is actually Scottish. In fact all of their Irish salmon was caught in Scottish waters. As Scotland is governed by a party even letter than our own and is disputing with us over fishing rights, Rockall etc I had to skip the fish of knowledge tonight.
Rod Dreher has made it his mission to promote a positive practical orthodox Christian lifestyle. What would a conservative lifestyle look Like? As most Irish people are now urbanites it is becoming more difficult to live a lifestyle faithful to a conservative vision. Have people any practical ideas or activities they engage in to live conservatively?
|
|
|
|
Post by servantofthechief on Jun 30, 2019 0:38:29 GMT
Fun fact I learned in University: The EU actively discourages and fines nations that promote their people buy their own national products. Ireland itself did this a few years back, with their 'Buy Irish' campaign, complete with stickers placed on products confirmed to come from Irish companies.
We got the hammer tute sweet for that little action, innocent though it was.
Funnily enough, Germany gets away with this. I wonder why.
As to how to live conservatively, I honestly have no idea, beyond believing in traditionalist morals and principles and acting accordingly. Its borderline impossible to do these days outside of your own house. Buy an Irish product? Good luck if you cant buy local produce from nearby farms of a fish merchant at the town fair. Go to a movie? Nothing but straight propaganda from start to finish, same with TV and radio. The Internet gives us a modicum of freedom but that can only affect us personally and not in the community. I guess taking money out of your own wallet and funding a cultural festival? If you're talented enough, take an Irish instrument and play on a city street as a busker playing the Old Tunes, or your own ones in Irish genres of music.
|
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Jun 30, 2019 23:50:13 GMT
I have been reflecting...etc... I try to shop conservatively. I have stopped buying the Irish newspapers that were the cheerleaders for striping the unborn of the right to life. I try to buy Irish products - harder than you think. My doctor has ordered me to eat more fish. The Ballymaclare Salmon from Cork in my local Tesco is actually Scottish. In fact all of their Irish salmon was caught in Scottish waters. As Scotland is governed by a party even letter than our own and is disputing with us over fishing rights, Rockall etc I had to skip the fish of knowledge tonight. ....etc....? I remember once reading a curiousity about the Queen being official owner of Scotland's fish stocks,which seemed remarkable seeing that the independence party was largely led by a Sturgeon and a Salmond. I notice at least one Irish paper last week headlined something (reprinted elsewhere) largely unheard of (as a concern anyway)in western media- a drop in male sperm counts. Attributed to junk food,which I'm sure males in other countries eat in almost equal measure. Seeing that hamburgers have been around since Chris deBurgh first started gigging in Captain America and before,have they examined more modern possiblilties? Recreational drugs,radiation from screens,gym-junkie-steroids,spray-on tans,male contraception pills,perhaps even condoms? On the subject,I was given an early June Irish Independent last week- oddly, the place spruking Irish made products was Aldi,but,as someone said,Germans get away with it. |
|
|
|
Post by kj on Jul 1, 2019 10:26:22 GMT
I myself avoid all mainstream media: I scan the headlines of the BBC World News website each morning just to see what's going on and that's it. I avoid all newspapers and tv. I rarely go to the cinema, as by and large it is just gratuitous violence and porn.
I'm currently engaged in re-reading Dante; I try to do a canto a day. It's great spiritual, poetic and theological exercise. I do need to get back to my Gaeilge, as I'm beginning to feel guilty again about all that.
Also I try to get into the countryside each weekend as I firmly believe city life is mentally deleterious by and large.
I do participate a bit in Facebook, as I believe that the battle of ideas is very important, and can and does influence younger people who will go on to become future power-holders.
I'm outside Ireland at present, so I'm a spectator of the Irish scene. If I were at home, I'd be inclined to join the National Party, although for the life of me I don't understand why they haven't fielded candidates yet in any of the smaller-scale elections. You have to start somewhere and accept you will be trounced at the beginning. Even if they got 100 votes in a constituency somewhere I think that would be a start.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 1, 2019 12:28:03 GMT
This is a great thread and one I am following with interest. It is similar to the "What have you conserved lately?" thread. Like Cato I think laments are entirely legitimate, but it's also important to try to go against the current in some way, especially a practical way. One little thing (for Christians) that I think is important is to say grace whenever you eat, especially in public. Just doing that is a little push against secularism. Another thing I am trying to do is to memorize stuff. I really worry about the erosion of oral culture and folk culture and what appears to me as the decline in the average person's ability to sing a song, recite a poem, or quote Scripture or literature. This clip of Peter Hitchens on Question Time, being the only panel member who can recite a poem (the others don't even try), is quite poignant to me. For some time I have been consciously memorizing poetry and reciting it to myself at regular intervals, hoping to build up a repertoire of such material. Another thing I do is try try to avoid smutty jokes and coarse language. I never indulged in the second that much, but I'm trying to cut it out completely. The temptation for a cheap laugh is so powerful that it took me longer to avoid telling or repeating smutty jokes (or risqué comments), but I think I've more or less got there now. I'm surprised at how many self-proclaimed conservatives turn the air blue. Trying to throw random Irish sentences into my conversation is another thing I do. The question of pop culture and the media is a big one. I've often felt guilty for listening to pop and rock music and resolved to cut it out of my life. I've tried listening to classical music but the truth is, I just don't like it, and it feels silly to listen to something without actually enjoying it. Then there is the question of DEGREES of good and bad. As Servant of the Chief says, the cinema is mostly propaganda now. But still, the whole movie-going experience seems something worthy of preserving, and intrinsically better than TV and internet. So I generally feel I am doing something laudable in going to the cinema, in spite of everything. I tweeted this about pop culture, last week. (It got zero likes and one retweet): "Pop culture is like a forest of saplings that has been planted where an ancient and far richer forest was uprooted and cleared. Your heart bleeds for the old forest, but saplings are better than nothing." What folklore, traditions and community we have today seem to be mediated through pop culture. Is that better than nothing? I don't know. |
|
|
|
Post by servantofthechief on Jul 1, 2019 16:32:34 GMT
I myself avoid all mainstream media: I scan the headlines of the BBC World News website each morning just to see what's going on and that's it. I avoid all newspapers and tv. I rarely go to the cinema, as by and large it is just gratuitous violence and porn. I'm currently engaged in re-reading Dante; I try to do a canto a day. It's great spiritual, poetic and theological exercise. I do need to get back to my Gaeilge, as I'm beginning to feel guilty again about all that. Also I try to get into the countryside each weekend as I firmly believe city life is mentally deleterious by and large. I do participate a bit in Facebook, as I believe that the battle of ideas is very important, and can and does influence younger people who will go on to become future power-holders. I'm outside Ireland at present, so I'm a spectator of the Irish scene. If I were at home, I'd be inclined to join the National Party, although for the life of me I don't understand why they haven't fielded candidates yet in any of the smaller-scale elections. You have to start somewhere and accept you will be trounced at the beginning. Even if they got 100 votes in a constituency somewhere I think that would be a start. From what I understand, its a plan the NP leadership is playing to build up their party infrastructure before they start fielding candidates, ensure they have a 'base' in every strategic location, rather then going whole hog from the get go and get slaughtered in early elections. They're trying to not just copy the populist party successes across Europe, because they recognise the situation is different here in Ireland. I think what they're going to do is seed ideas and discontent, attracting especially younger voters to build up the party, study the political game and then when the time is right, probably during a year of peak discontent with the establishment, perhaps when Google's grip on the internet slips however slightly (which seems to actually be coming soon if you pay attention to that bill in America about forcing big tech companies to say if they're a platform or a publisher) and then just blitz candidates and an internet savvy campaign to bypass the intense media bubble here in Ireland everywhere in Ireland, apparently in Northern Ireland too (if they can snatch a good portion of the nationalist vote here from the communists and the socialist parties that are our only option up here, its a game changer both in NI and the South). The panic it will cause in the media would pay dividends in terms of alerting people of their existence and potential, and the fact that they are suddenly everywhere, and everyone is talking about it and the media is smearing it to hell and back all at once, will just draw more eyes to the party. But we'll see how it goes. Everything they are saying is more hard and principled than the other 'Last year's liberalism is this years conservative' alternative parties that have been popping up as of late. I am not gonna put the bank on them, but I'd vote for them because they would disrupt the establishment, which is what we need the most right now. |
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 1, 2019 17:28:44 GMT
I myself avoid all mainstream media: I scan the headlines of the BBC World News website each morning just to see what's going on and that's it. I avoid all newspapers and tv. I rarely go to the cinema, as by and large it is just gratuitous violence and porn. I'm currently engaged in re-reading Dante; I try to do a canto a day. It's great spiritual, poetic and theological exercise. I do need to get back to my Gaeilge, as I'm beginning to feel guilty again about all that. Also I try to get into the countryside each weekend as I firmly believe city life is mentally deleterious by and large. I do participate a bit in Facebook, as I believe that the battle of ideas is very important, and can and does influence younger people who will go on to become future power-holders. I'm outside Ireland at present, so I'm a spectator of the Irish scene. If I were at home, I'd be inclined to join the National Party, although for the life of me I don't understand why they haven't fielded candidates yet in any of the smaller-scale elections. You have to start somewhere and accept you will be trounced at the beginning. Even if they got 100 votes in a constituency somewhere I think that would be a start. From what I understand, its a plan the NP leadership is playing to build up their party infrastructure before they start fielding candidates, ensure they have a 'base' in every strategic location, rather then going whole hog from the get go and get slaughtered in early elections. They're trying to not just copy the populist party successes across Europe, because they recognise the situation is different here in Ireland. I think what they're going to do is seed ideas and discontent, attracting especially younger voters to build up the party, study the political game and then when the time is right, probably during a year of peak discontent with the establishment, perhaps when Google's grip on the internet slips however slightly (which seems to actually be coming soon if you pay attention to that bill in America about forcing big tech companies to say if they're a platform or a publisher) and then just blitz candidates and an internet savvy campaign to bypass the intense media bubble here in Ireland everywhere in Ireland, apparently in Northern Ireland too (if they can snatch a good portion of the nationalist vote here from the communists and the socialist parties that are our only option up here, its a game changer both in NI and the South). The panic it will cause in the media would pay dividends in terms of alerting people of their existence and potential, and the fact that they are suddenly everywhere, and everyone is talking about it and the media is smearing it to hell and back all at once, will just draw more eyes to the party. But we'll see how it goes. Everything they are saying is more hard and principled than the other 'Last year's liberalism is this years conservative' alternative parties that have been popping up as of late. I am not gonna put the bank on them, but I'd vote for them because they would disrupt the establishment, which is what we need the most right now. I have decided to confine my own nationalism to cultural rather than political nationalism in future. As a Catholic, I find it too troubling to be constantly at odds with recent Popes and bishops on this subject. Surely nobody can object to the presevation of traditions and culture, which presupposes no political stance. Cultural nationalism is more important anyway, in my view. The revival of the Irish language would have been a greater achievement than independence itself. |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 1, 2019 20:07:09 GMT
I have been reflecting...etc... I try to shop conservatively. I have stopped buying the Irish newspapers that were the cheerleaders for striping the unborn of the right to life. I try to buy Irish products - harder than you think. My doctor has ordered me to eat more fish. The Ballymaclare Salmon from Cork in my local Tesco is actually Scottish. In fact all of their Irish salmon was caught in Scottish waters. As Scotland is governed by a party even letter than our own and is disputing with us over fishing rights, Rockall etc I had to skip the fish of knowledge tonight. ....etc....? I remember once reading a curiousity about the Queen being official owner of Scotland's fish stocks,which seemed remarkable seeing that the independence party was largely led by a Sturgeon and a Salmond. I notice at least one Irish paper last week headlined something (reprinted elsewhere) largely unheard of (as a concern anyway)in western media- a drop in male sperm counts. Attributed to junk food,which I'm sure males in other countries eat in almost equal measure. Seeing that hamburgers have been around since Chris deBurgh first started gigging in Captain America and before,have they examined more modern possiblilties? Recreational drugs,radiation from screens,gym-junkie-steroids,spray-on tans,male contraception pills,perhaps even condoms? On the subject,I was given an early June Irish Independent last week- oddly, the place spruking Irish made products was Aldi,but,as someone said,Germans get away with it. I think the widespread use of female contraception has probably had an effect on male fertility too. |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 1, 2019 20:12:20 GMT
I myself avoid all mainstream media: I scan the headlines of the BBC World News website each morning just to see what's going on and that's it. I avoid all newspapers and tv. I rarely go to the cinema, as by and large it is just gratuitous violence and porn. I'm currently engaged in re-reading Dante; I try to do a canto a day. It's great spiritual, poetic and theological exercise. I do need to get back to my Gaeilge, as I'm beginning to feel guilty again about all that. Also I try to get into the countryside each weekend as I firmly believe city life is mentally deleterious by and large. I do participate a bit in Facebook, as I believe that the battle of ideas is very important, and can and does influence younger people who will go on to become future power-holders. I'm outside Ireland at present, so I'm a spectator of the Irish scene. If I were at home, I'd be inclined to join the National Party, although for the life of me I don't understand why they haven't fielded candidates yet in any of the smaller-scale elections. You have to start somewhere and accept you will be trounced at the beginning. Even if they got 100 votes in a constituency somewhere I think that would be a start. I read Dante periodically too and regular trips to the Irish countryside do keep me sane. The National Party deliberately do not campaign for local elections which given how Irish politics works is simply crazy. How else do you get a toe hold and recognition? |
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Jul 3, 2019 12:37:46 GMT
This is a great thread and one I am following with interest. It is similar to the "What have you conserved lately?" thread. Like Cato I think laments are entirely legitimate, but it's also important to try to go against the current in some way, especially a practical way. One little thing (for Christians) that I think is important is to say grace whenever you eat, especially in public. Just doing that is a little push against secularism. Another thing I am trying to do is to memorize stuff. I really worry about the erosion of oral culture and folk culture and what appears to me as the decline in the average person's ability to sing a song, recite a poem, or quote Scripture or literature. This clip of Peter Hitchens on Question Time, being the only panel member who can recite a poem (the others don't even try), is quite poignant to me. For some time I have been consciously memorizing poetry and reciting it to myself at regular intervals, hoping to build up a repertoire of such material. Another thing I do is try try to avoid smutty jokes and coarse language. I never indulged in the second that much, but I'm trying to cut it out completely. The temptation for a cheap laugh is so powerful that it took me longer to avoid telling or repeating smutty jokes (or risqué comments), but I think I've more or less got there now. I'm surprised at how many self-proclaimed conservatives turn the air blue. Trying to throw random Irish sentences into my conversation is another thing I do. The question of pop culture and the media is a big one. I've often felt guilty for listening to pop and rock music and resolved to cut it out of my life. I've tried listening to classical music but the truth is, I just don't like it, and it feels silly to listen to something without actually enjoying it. Then there is the question of DEGREES of good and bad. As Servant of the Chief says, the cinema is mostly propaganda now. But still, the whole movie-going experience seems something worthy of preserving, and intrinsically better than TV and internet. So I generally feel I am doing something laudable in going to the cinema, in spite of everything. I tweeted this about pop culture, last week. (It got zero likes and one retweet): "Pop culture is like a forest of saplings that has been planted where an ancient and far richer forest was uprooted and cleared. Your heart bleeds for the old forest, but saplings are better than nothing." What folklore, traditions and community we have today seem to be mediated through pop culture. Is that better than nothing? I don't know. On one hand if there was no contemporary movements(pop culture of old, in a sense) through the centuries we wouldn't have Beethoven or Mozart either. But the degree of change-attitude has certainly changed. Looking at the PreRaphaelite movement,say,which broke with centuries of art convention,but can you compare their beautiful art with the complete formlessness often seen in Francis Bacon or the mentality of someone sticking a moustache on Mona Lisa or those who consider the moustached Lisa to be a completely new and different work-of-art? I like to think of contemporary music (and perhaps cinema) as being similar, in analogy, to some of the towns destroyed during WWII or,more so,like the ruins at Jerpoint or Whitby or an olive branch surviving a deluge. After all is cleared, a stone,a wall,a window still stands and we can say with honesty: there is beauty there. There's much in rock and pop,and certainly it's artists, which is ugly,evil and even satanic;I've read bits about this,mostly by Lutherans- which brings up the question of whether most Catholics bother too little about this or some protestants bother too much? Of course musicians can be subject to as much change and presonal confusion as everybody else also...Bob Dylan was both condemned and applauded by one pastor,Dylan having found Christianity a few years before the publication,he reflected this for a while in his music. The same book made mention of Donna Sommers' strong sexual image (albeit,years later, her obituaries did claim that without a trailblazing Donna there would have been no Madonna)but,actually, Sommers did have a conversion experience after this early-80s book was written and did start recording gospel,despite this depriving her of further mainstream success. Bettie Davis Eyes is much condemned for sexual overtones,right enough perhaps,but without mention that it had actually been a 70s country western song that was later 'pop-ized'. As decades pass you can ragpick the worthy bits: Dream Academy incorporating instruments like the oboe,U2 highlighting Irish castles,Rea's On The Beach reads very much like poetry...and I'm sure Ed Sheeran's slight inclusion of Irish themes will be appreciated in years to come. |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 4, 2019 20:23:35 GMT
From what I understand, its a plan the NP leadership is playing to build up their party infrastructure before they start fielding candidates, ensure they have a 'base' in every strategic location, rather then going whole hog from the get go and get slaughtered in early elections. They're trying to not just copy the populist party successes across Europe, because they recognise the situation is different here in Ireland. I think what they're going to do is seed ideas and discontent, attracting especially younger voters to build up the party, study the political game and then when the time is right, probably during a year of peak discontent with the establishment, perhaps when Google's grip on the internet slips however slightly (which seems to actually be coming soon if you pay attention to that bill in America about forcing big tech companies to say if they're a platform or a publisher) and then just blitz candidates and an internet savvy campaign to bypass the intense media bubble here in Ireland everywhere in Ireland, apparently in Northern Ireland too (if they can snatch a good portion of the nationalist vote here from the communists and the socialist parties that are our only option up here, its a game changer both in NI and the South). The panic it will cause in the media would pay dividends in terms of alerting people of their existence and potential, and the fact that they are suddenly everywhere, and everyone is talking about it and the media is smearing it to hell and back all at once, will just draw more eyes to the party.
But we'll see how it goes. Everything they are saying is more hard and principled than the other 'Last year's liberalism is this years conservative' alternative parties that have been popping up as of late. I am not gonna put the bank on them, but I'd vote for them because they would disrupt the establishment, which is what we need the most right now.[/quote]
I reckon much of your analysis is spot on. However it still looks like the NP are hurlers on the ditch waiting for the a political or financial apocalypse when a grateful Gaeldom will elect for the first and final time a National Party government.This passive approach ignores the basic problem that why would anyone vote for a party with no experience of governing anything?
Small parties influence policy by getting elected and being in a position to prop up a coalition arrangement. The idea you can go from zero seats to 80 plus is total and absolute fantasy. How those hypothetical National Party TDs would govern ..... Words fail me.
|
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 4, 2019 20:32:24 GMT
On a practical day to day basis I wonder are good manners and civility a conservative concept? Many of us even in public places avoid any contact with those around us preferring to bury our heads in a phone or listen to music on our earphones. Chesterton , I think in his book on St Francis wrote about the connection between courtly love and respect for the sanctity of other people.
Jacob Rees Mogg and Michael Gove in the UK strike me as admirably courteous. Senator Ronan Mullen stands out in Ireland. But then Jeremy Corbyn is also remarkably polite too.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 5, 2019 10:24:11 GMT
On a practical day to day basis I wonder are good manners and civility a conservative concept? Many of us even in public places avoid any contact with those around us preferring to bury our heads in a phone or listen to music on our earphones. Chesterton , I think in his book on St Francis wrote about the connection between courtly love and respect for the sanctity of other people. Jacob Rees Mogg and Michael Gove in the UK strike me as admirably courteous. Senator Ronan Mullen stands out in Ireland. But then Jeremy Corbyn is also remarkably polite too..... Jacob Rees Mogg's courteousness is outstanding. Perhaps it's a sign of the times that it's so noticeable. I'm not sure I would claim good manners and civility are a conservative concept, but I do think they are protected by the belief that not everything is political-- a belief the far left (and far right) often repudiate. |
|
