The Irish and materialism

By nature? No. Otherwise we would not have those stories of starving martyrs refusing to give up their Catholicism in order to obtain food relief from Protestant missionaries during the famine, one of the most trying times in our nation's history.

Are we more materialistic now than compared to our ancestors? Definitely, but this is a result of conditioning, not because of a facet of our fallen nature. I do believe Nations carry certain spirits in more proportion than others, as well as certain vices and virtues in proportion more than others according to the Grace of God. Some of this is conditional, some of this is inherent, but however mercenary an Irish clansmen could be (Irish clans occupied the sweet spot between feudal loyalty to clan and kingdom and the freedom of a freedman by virtue of being neither serf nor slave, especially after Ireland became Christian, and, in my opinion, especially post Norman Conquest, when the introduction of feudalism failed to embed serfdom in Gaelic civilization but brought the relationships and understanding between clansmen and kings into sharper relief and focus. This is why a Galloglass as a class could be found as the hereditary bodyguard of a local Gaelic king as well as a freelancing mercenary wandering Europe known for their ferocity, skill in individual combat and reliability) participating willingly (and sometimes unwillingly) as mercenaries and adventurers and volunteers in other mens' wars and civil wars, we were rarely, if ever found to be effective merchants. The sword and the smoking pipe fits us better and more naturally as a people than the weighing scales and the counting house. It is truly telling that in olden times, Irishmen walked around using long axes as walking sticks they'd lean on while talking to a stranger they met on the road, even in times of peace, rather than a cane. And that today, the archtypical Irish walking stick, the Shillelagh, is as much a battering club as it is a support for walking the dog in the fields and backroads of County Clare during the Summer months.

Guess which one we are told Ireland should hold in higher regard these days and then it will be little wonder why we are so ill fitted at the game of international finance capitalism and its chicanery, and why we are so unhappy while being so much 'richer' than our ancestors. The wealth itself isn't the problem, its how we got it thats the problem, and the mentally perpetuated to ensure things stay the way they are, its not 'ours', and everything we 'own' is owed to someone else to whom we are debt slaves. Of course we wanted to be wealthy and prosperous, what sane people wouldn't? However our vision of both the past and the present has been warped because we have seen what a lack of control over 'bread and butter' can do to a society, it kept us in thrall to England for nearly a thousand years. The struggle in Irish nationalism between secularism, republicanism, monarchism, and clericalism has been a long ongoing one since the movement began, it was never either one way or the other, its why there even was the New Departure to reconcile the Republicans with the rest of the Nationalist movement back in the day. Sure the types of people who'd write opinion pieces in the 19th century would care more about economics; they were more likely to be the sort teaching economics in schools, rather than the 10 other men who'd be working the fields or the factories who wanted God and Country who might read the papers but would have neither time nor inclination to write in to the editor.

By the by, my example is not to state we should become a warlike people, but only wether we like it or not, we were always to a degree a warlike people, not in the sense of going off and conquering others, but in always being ready and willing to fight. The Fighting Irish stereotype, as harmful as it may be, and based on American misconceptions and prejudices, has actually always been a historical fact well known about us by our neighbours for good or ill. The King of Spain, when offered the crown by the Irish nobility, and himself convinced of the old Book of Invasions story of the Irish Celts originally coming from Spain, (Milésians, sons of Mile Espania) consider us akin to Spaniards, refused it because he would be aghast at ruling over such fratricidal nobility. A negative example but it hammers home the point, however bad we were then, we are now the opposite and probably much worse extreme. Instead of being rough men who were rarely gentle, (never before Christ, and after Him, much more so) we have become a gentle people who are rarely men.

And it does not suit us, it is little wonder we are so miserable.

I think the Irish are just as materialistic as any other people on earth. In the past we often made a virtue from wide spread poverty that most people did not consciously choose. The large numbers who left Ireland in search of a decent standard of living show how many found it impossible to cope economically with a frugal life at home.

Catholic preachers often compared the virtuous poor Irish with materialistic England in bygone years , ignoring the fact that free movement of labour made it possible for many of those poor to get a job in England. They often sent money home keeping their families on small farms. It was also a safety valve in keeping Ireland free from serious social strife. One of the major weaknesses in traditional Irish conservatism was its inability to provide an economy which offered all its people a chance to work at home in Ireland. Modern Ireland has its flaws but it has provided a much stronger economy when it comes to providing work. This is probably the main reason why most people support a modern liberal Ireland closely linked to Europe.

Christianity does warn us about the serious dangers of the misuse of wealth but Irish Catholicism has been for at least 50 years run by the financially comfortable and those ideologically sympathetic to a liberal middle class world view. The bishops regularly call for sharing resources more equally but are quieter on the necessity of making wealth in a morally responsible way in the first place.

A Christian conservative needs to be aware of the personal risks of worshipping mammon but we also need to be pro the responsible creation of wealth and jobs which sustain families and communities. That's a difficult balancing act .

]I sometimes wonder is it possible to combine the social and cultural conservatism of De Valera's Ireland with the demands of a modern, open economy.
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Singapore is perhaps unusual in that it is really a large city state , with a very open and successful economy but is socially conservative in many ways , at least up to now. It resembles ancient Sparta in that it is heavily armed and has quite restrictive laws. People seemed to be content to swap some liberties for prosperity and security.

Taiwan and South Korea also appear to be traditional societies that were economic successes. Japan has been in recession for a long time in spite of its wealth and has major problems with an aging population. They have very few foreign migrants but I believe economic necessity is altering this.

To expand on my saying ...




I was thinking of lines like this ...




I lack time to argue this, but all my experience of Ireland these last 15 years and study of her history certainly lends considerable support to what you write here.

That sentence is carefully phrased.

And a final request servant ... I would be grateful for more white space in posts like yours above. Alas, I find them hard to read from a screen, which is why I break up my own posts with so much white space.

Well, I fear sticking foot in mouth again, but I shall impetuously add something about how one defines materialism.

Because the deeper I've penetrated French culture, the more I've felt how the French seem both more and less materialistic than the Anglosphere.

More materialistic: the sheer emphasis one finds in France on certain types of PLEASURE. Eg. gastronomic, sexual. England and Ireland are quite different, in my experience.

Less materialistic: despite the evident trend towards "bling-bling" in certain French circles, the real, pronounced hostility to "bling-bling" elsewhere, including a widespread resistance to luxury things like big cars, buying new clothes all the time, inequality etc . France still seems markedly different in this way to my mind.

For me, though, it was necessary to really comprehend the language (if not yet fluently speak it) to see these differences.


But the more I do that, the more both the French obsession with pleasure, sheer pleasure, hits me, as well as the objection to consumerism and inequality.

No offence taken Rogerbuck. I know you would not intend to cause hurtful or personalised friction. Still a little verbal cross fire can enlighten and liven things up from time to time!



On the wider issue of national characteristics I have mixed views. Behind the stereotypes of dreamy , musical, heavy drinking, fighting Irish etc there can be an element of sometimes alarming truth.It also can degenerate into condescending paddy whackeey in certain hands.Our Christian experience outside the Roman Empire , occupied by England , land dispossession, religious divisions etc have left marks on us as a nation. Some benign others not so.


That Nation has I fear changed enormously in recent decades : much more than in the past and in a rapid on going manner. The ignorance of culture , theology and history means many have no concept of rootedness/tradition or what a momentous process of change is underway. That is alarming. I am not sure how much the modern Irish soul connects with the great and the good who fought the good fight before us.