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Post by kj on Aug 1, 2019 7:58:44 GMT
It seems all you have to do be a journalist in The New Official Ireland today is make a few disparaging remarks about Dev and laud women's lib. Quite how an attention-seeking woman flashing her parts on British tv represents a moral improvement on anything is beyond me, but this is our new reality....
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Post by cato on Aug 1, 2019 11:03:07 GMT
It seems all you have to do be a journalist in The New Official Ireland today is make a few disparaging remarks about Dev and laud women's lib. Quite how an attention-seeking woman flashing her parts on British tv represents a moral improvement on anything is beyond me, but this is our new reality....
I haven't watched Love Island for more than the 3 seconds it takes to switch channels when it is on but it appears to be all the rage to put it quaintly. Conservative types often refer to Dev , Archbishop Mc Quaid or other national icons rolling in their graves when the latest social or cultural outrage occurs but perhaps those who are really turning in their graves are the female ancestors of these ladies in Skippy underwear and liberal morals. The liberated dames and their buffed male replicas don't appear to be the brightest buttons either. I hope they enjoy their summer of fame. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 1, 2019 11:07:12 GMT
My eyes almost rolled out of my sockets. Even by the standards of the Irish Times it seemed ridiculous. How long can they go on flogging that dead horse?
I was, however, proud not to know anything about Love Island or the person in question.
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Post by servantofthechief on Aug 1, 2019 11:27:54 GMT
I don't even watch TV anymore, truth be told. Unless, I don't know, there's an old Bond movie on that my auld ones happen to be watching, then I might stay for a bit.
That these wastrels pound upon Old Dev shouldn't surprise anyone, they have to keep beating the old icons of their enemies in order to keep us demoralized, otherwise we might get curious enough to investigate their stories for ourselves. They've been doing the same in the US and the UK for decades before our lads got started on the act, its a classic tactic the left uses when it obtains positions of power, especially media positions of any kind.
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Post by cato on Aug 1, 2019 11:59:06 GMT
My eyes almost rolled out of my sockets. Even by the standards of the Irish Times it seemed ridiculous. How long can they go on flogging that dead horse? I was, however, proud not to know anything about Love Island or the person in question. I have one or two acquaintances with high lofty liberal views who keep flogging old jokes that were never funny but are certainly stale and mouldy now. The problem is they imagine these jokes are still cutting edge 50 years on. The view of Dev as a sour old prude ignores recent biographers who depict a man with a very loving affectionate but strained at times marriage . But why let the actual truth interfere with sneering prejudices? |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 1, 2019 12:17:10 GMT
My eyes almost rolled out of my sockets. Even by the standards of the Irish Times it seemed ridiculous. How long can they go on flogging that dead horse? I was, however, proud not to know anything about Love Island or the person in question. I have one or two acquaintances with high lofty liberal views who keep flogging old jokes that were never funny but are certainly stale and mouldy now. The problem is they imagine these jokes are still cutting edge 50 years on. The view of Dev as a sour old prude ignores recent biographers who depict a man with a very loving affectionate but strained at times marriage . But why let the actual truth interfere with sneering prejudices? I happen to be reading John Cooney's (outrageously biased) biography of John Charles McQuaid right now. For all Dev and McQuaid are seen as a double act, there were certainly tensions in their relationship as Taoiseach and Archbishop of Dublin, and in fact McQuaid in one letter admitted that he preferred to deal with Costello and Fine Gael, considering them more loyal to the Church. He thought De Valera and Fianna Fáil were too inclined to placate Ulster Protestants out of a desire for a united Ireland. |
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Post by Séamus on Aug 3, 2019 8:51:15 GMT
It seems all you have to do be a journalist in The New Official Ireland today is make a few disparaging remarks about Dev and laud women's lib. Quite how an attention-seeking woman flashing her parts on British tv represents a moral improvement on anything is beyond me, but this is our new reality....
I haven't watched Love Island for more than the 3 seconds it takes to switch channels when it is on but it appears to be all the rage to put it quaintly. Conservative types often refer to Dev , Archbishop Mc Quaid or other national icons rolling in their graves when the latest social or cultural outrage occurs but perhaps those who are really turning in their graves are the female ancestors of these ladies in Skippy underwear and liberal morals. The liberated dames and their buffed male replicas don't appear to be the brightest buttons either. I hope they enjoy their summer of fame. A lot of the experts of the day didn't seem to see things so simply. Patrick Lynch in a 60s essay 'The Economic Scene' mentioned 'it is sometimes argued that Irish conservatism can be attributed to the influence of the Roman Catholic church. That Church has certainly a unique place in Ireland. But if Irish churchmen are conservative it is largely because the laity expect them to be. It is the laity who are timid and unadventurous...in 1951 the Catholic hierarchy condemned the proposals of Dr Noel Browne,minister for health,for a nationalised health service. Individual priests and many laymen deplored the intervention,but the laity was certainly on the side of the bishops" Sean Mac Réamoinn,writing on religion in general around the same time said "bishops and priests have tended to lay down decisions rather than enter into dialogue liaty and this has been at least as much the fault of the laity as of themselves. Many a progressive cleric has desperately tried to share responsibility with his people only to be met with a firm refusal" (cf c.cruise O'Brien introduces Ireland) Going into the early 80s and the original 8th amendment referendum Vincent Buckley of Trinity college in his reminisces wrote that "(Dick)Spring too saw the bishops as seduced by others more militant",earlier "(the Irish Catholic Doctors Guild)it was these doctors who dreamed up the referendum and persued it with backing from British groups...more than one journalist reported the hierarchy to be deeply divided on whether it should issue a statement telling Catholics they are free to vote No" I assume because abortion legislation was so unthinkable anyway... |
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Post by cato on Aug 3, 2019 11:39:22 GMT
'it is sometimes argued that Irish conservatism can be attributed to the influence of the Roman Catholic church. That Church has certainly a unique place in Ireland. But if Irish churchmen are conservative it is largely because the laity expect them to be. It is the laity who are timid and unadventurous...in 1951 the Catholic hierarchy condemned the proposals of Dr Noel Browne,minister for health,for a nationalised health service. Individual priests and many laymen deplored the intervention,but the laity was certainly on the side of the bishops"
Sean Mac Réamoinn,writing on religion in general around the same time said "bishops and priests have tended to lay down decisions rather than enter into dialogue liaty and this has been at least as much the fault of the laity as of themselves. Many a progressive cleric has desperately tried to share responsibility with his people only to be met with a firm refusal" (cf c.cruise O'Brien introduces Ireland)
Going into the early 80s and the original 8th amendment referendum Vincent Buckley of Trinity college in his reminisces wrote that "(Dick)Spring too saw the bishops as seduced by others more militant",earlier "(the Irish Catholic Doctors Guild)it was these doctors who dreamed up the referendum and persued it with backing from British groups...more than one journalist reported the hierarchy to be deeply divided on whether it should issue a statement telling Catholics they are free to vote No"
I assume because abortion legislation was so unthinkable anyway...
Interesting points Seamus . The Irish Bishops have I think the oldest Episcopal conference in the world going back to the 19th century. One or two powerful prelates tend to dominate or more recently a general mediocrity reigns. The bishops as a body were never enthusiastic about the 8th amendment. They regularly issued the liberal you can vote anyway line until when we faced a real life and death choice last year, many Catholics "felt" ok to vote to allow widespread killing of the unborn.
I came across a retired Kerry Mgr in Maynooth who was in the 1980s renowned for his lonely traditionalism. After his death it emerged Mgr Cremin was the moral theologian who advised Noel Browne there was nothing doctrinally wrong with the Mother and Child scheme , contrary to the views of the more cautious bishops .The UK bishops hadn't condemned the more radical NHS which was applied to Northern Ireland and didn't upset the Northern Irish bishops, at least not in public. Recent historians have offered the view the bishops followed the powerful Doctors lobby who feared a financial hit. By taking such a political stance the bishops did great damage to their status as moral guides in the long run.
Mgr Cremin was one of Ireland's great canon lawyers and attended Vatican II as a theological expert. He was widely expected to be become Bishop of Kerry but in the spirit of the age a dynamic young progressive got the Episcopal hat instead. His name was Eamon Casey. The rest as they say is history.
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