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Post by kj on Oct 7, 2019 16:00:50 GMT
An interesting article by an online acquaintance of mine, introducing the oft-cited but rarely understood phenomenon of Jansenism. The author also disputes the idea that the Irish church was somehow tainted by a dark and gloomy rigour that has its roots in the doctrine. Are Jansenists among us? |
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Post by cato on Oct 7, 2019 20:27:03 GMT
I just read that article half am hour ago coincidentally!
I remember the late Mgr. Patrick Corish of Maynooth denouncing the myth of widespread Irish Jansenism in the 1980s so this legend has been put to bed albeit unsuccessfully! Irish Catholicism was rigorist , legalist and in case of doubt presumed guilt but it was not Jansenist.
It does annoy liberal Catholics when you point out Vatican II is in many ways a Jansenist (albeit the positive aspects) inspired Council.
The author praises Pascal's Provincial Letters . I read them a couple of years ago and they are a witty undermining of Jesuit practices and "pastoral solutions". Some things never change.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 8, 2019 13:00:24 GMT
Interesting article.
"Manichaean" is another term that gets thrown about with little regard to its historical meaning.
The controversies that have engulfed the Church since Pope Francis's arrival have made me more cautious about attempting to penetrate Catholic doctrine, and to see it as more mysterious and less rationalistic.
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Post by Séamus on Oct 9, 2019 8:00:16 GMT
The great enthusiasm with which the Irish embraced the papal devotions to the Sacred Heart (Pius IX) and daily Communion (Pius X) as well as the influence of the Society of Jesus, definately wouldn't indicate a terribly Jansenist foundation in the full definition of the term. A 1919 published book by a visiting Jesuit,prefaced by Chesterton,has a passage which,in a sense,describes all three: "turn to the left as you leave the cathedral steps,climb the hill,and before you are the massive pillars of the church of St Francis Xavier. Here daily masses begin a 6am and end at 11:30. An eminent ecclesiastic, on a visit to Dublin,was asked to give Communion during his Mass in this church. He did so,but when a quarter of an hour had elapsed and the people were still surging forward,he became alarmed and sent the altarboy for a priest to help him. 'I never saw anything like it in my life',he declared 'and so many men!'. In that church alone full 400,000 Communions are given yearly' " (soul of Ireland w.j.lockingtonSJ)
I hadn't realised that the Irish Paris College was still training Irish seminarians up to the 1940s until I saw an account of a Maynooth ordination written at this time which mentioned the fact. And movements in France during these centuries would undoubtedly permeate in some ways...but the same writer also describes Station Masses still taking place in Kerry at this time,a tradition from the penal area where farmers gathered in each other's houses for Mass,,.I definately couldn't see celebrating mass in homes when churches were available as a Jansenist tradition.
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Jansenism
Oct 9, 2019 19:18:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by cato on Oct 9, 2019 19:18:34 GMT
I wonder do certain terms like Jansenist take on a life of their own disregarding their true origin and nature? Terms like fascist and Nazi are thrown around by the left and terms like humanist and liberal are terms of abuse in some right wing circles.
If we are to use labels we should strive to use them accurately and not simply because they help score a quick point. I do sympathise with those who are appalled when our leaders be they in Washington , London ,Rome or Dublin abuse large sections of people they disagree with.
This labelling is ecumenical in that it is practiced by left and right and is becoming more depressingly common.
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Post by Tomas on Oct 10, 2019 10:45:51 GMT
Maybe the confusion of labels are just devices of the Adversary to make us weary and keep any attempt to serious conversation caged and blurred?
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Post by cato on Oct 11, 2019 19:24:27 GMT
Maybe the confusion of labels are just devices of the Adversary to make us weary and keep any attempt to serious conversation caged and blurred? He is not called the father of lies for nothing. However in this age of equality perhaps we could refer to her as the mother of lies. That well known feminist Mel Gibson presented the serpent in the Passion of the Christ as feminine if memory serves me right. |
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