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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 18, 2019 17:41:53 GMT
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Post by Séamus on Nov 23, 2019 8:16:18 GMT
I'm sure most of us would agree with the consumerist side of the season being toned down a bit,but,if anything,the light displays show a more empathic side,being viewed by all whether rich,poor,friendless or socially booked-out. I do often wonder about some of the carols sung by the Sinatras/Cosbys/Como/Clooneys during the post-War years when people had little money. And yet my parents' generation have no bitterness whatever towards the season or tradition of giving. There does seem to be a few mainstream Christmas feature films showing this year, moreso than usual. Australian retailers are expecting less profit this Christmas;they've been saying so for months now- not entirely sure how they can predict this. One thing I've noticed the last few Easters is the tendency for shops- from the most expensive mainstream to the most budget- to sell children's craft items (painting of polystyrene eggs and the likes- sorry time-travelling-Greta!),perhaps in response to a concern about sugar consumption. Resurrecting family arts and crafts might be a good way forward for the Christmas season too.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 23, 2019 10:14:50 GMT
I'm sure most of us would agree with the consumerist side of the season being toned down a bit,but,if anything,the light displays show a more empathic side,being viewed by all whether rich,poor,friendless or socially booked-out. This might be my favourite thing about Christmas. It's just there. You don't even have to go looking for it. It gives a distinctive flavour to everything for its duration. I wish other seasons were more like that. That is the thing I like least about Christmas. It's the Great Wen of the year-- it sucks all the traditions to itself.
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Post by cato on Nov 23, 2019 13:21:50 GMT
I see the barbarians currently running the Vatican have put up the Christmas tree in St Peter's square during the week. Seeing we are are still a week away from Advent its sad the church can't even give a little leadership for the rest of humanity. That sacred season is greatly undermined and misunderstood as it is.
This remark no doubt reveals more sour pussed rigidity on my part.
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Post by cato on Nov 17, 2020 15:46:31 GMT
What a difference a year makes!
Much of the motivation for our second lockdown with its gigantic cost is the desire to save Christmas. Saving Christmas is not about honouring the Christ child but having a good time and spending a small fortune. Mind you in the dreadful year for businesses which do provide many lower paid workers with their livelihoods I wouldn't begrudge business any opportunity this year to try and retrieve some of their losses.
Cromwell often gets the blame for abolishing Christmas after the English civil war . As his writ applied here we also had no official Christmas to the accession of Charles II. However it appears the Puritans in parliament had already abolished Christmas prior to Cromwell taking over so he gets a pass. The residual anti catholic idea behind this can be seen in Scotland were Christmas until recently played second fiddle to New Year. It wasn't a public holiday if my memory serves me right.
This year has been a year of unfortunate firsts. Will Christmas also fall by the Covid wayside?
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Post by cato on Nov 17, 2020 20:20:24 GMT
Scotland made Christmas a public holiday in 1958.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 17, 2020 20:38:49 GMT
So much of our public policy right now seems to be a kind of conditioning. Be good and we'll see about Christmas... Hopefully people have such an attachment to this one tradition, at least, that they begin to resist.
I started out unsure what to make of all the restrictions but I am becoming increasingly hostile to them. There really does seem to be a strong element of social engineering about it all.
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Post by cato on Nov 17, 2020 22:55:27 GMT
So much of our public policy right now seems to be a kind of conditioning. Be good and we'll see about Christmas... Hopefully people have such an attachment to this one tradition, at least, that they begin to resist. I started out unsure what to make of all the restrictions but I am becoming increasingly hostile to them. There really does seem to be a strong element of social engineering about it all. It is alarming how many petty authoritarian types have emerged , ironically many of them are the former freedom loving , pro choice , love is love brigade ,if Twitter is an accurate representation of public opinion. Lockdown is immensely popular among those who are financially insulated and there are currently few political risks in implementing tough lockdowns. Petty state rules are often quietly ignored but there is an ever present temptation among some politicians to restrict behaviour and monitor misdemenours in a way totally unimaginable a year ago. The silence by and large from state funded Irish Human rights NGOS shows what a danger the notion of relying on state cash is. You would almost imagine silencing potential embarasing critics was the whole point of the cash.
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Post by MaryB on Nov 18, 2020 17:22:01 GMT
How would you suggest that we protect ourselves and wider society against Covid 19 bearing in mind that it can kill even healthy people and can leave serious sequelae in healthy people?
how would you suggest we cope with the large number of hospital admissions that would occur if restrictions were lifted?
what about the health and safety of our frontline workers most of whom have families who are more open than most to infection?
I know 2 people who died of Covid 19 one of whom was healthy and fit and a young person under 18 who has been left with terrible health consequences that will alter his life.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 18, 2020 23:31:22 GMT
MaryB all I can say is that your experience seems to be atypical. No less important for that, but atypical. I don't know a single person who has been seriously ill with Covid, including my many elderly relatives. We know that the death rate has been massaged upwards since any death involving Covid is classed as a Covid death, whether the person died of it or not. And we also know the accuracy of testing is very questionable.
We can cocoon the high-risk categories without putting the entire of society in mothballs, an approach that is causing huge economic and social damage. Perhaps the worst damage is that people are becoming trained to give up their freedoms so quickly.
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Post by cato on Nov 18, 2020 23:35:12 GMT
How would you suggest that we protect ourselves and wider society against Covid 19 bearing in mind that it can kill even healthy people and can leave serious sequelae in healthy people? how would you suggest we cope with the large number of hospital admissions that would occur if restrictions were lifted? what about the health and safety of our frontline workers most of whom have families who are more open than most to infection? I know 2 people who died of Covid 19 one of whom was healthy and fit and a young person under 18 who has been left with terrible health consequences that will alter his life. I assume this question may be aimed at me. I don't have that grave responsibility of suggesting government policy Mary. Thank God. I do think that a Swedish approach may in the long term be the most sensible fairest and wisest approach . I could be wrong. Every year in Ireland around 32,000 people die of all causes. This year we spent at least 60 billion euro (much of it borrowed), destroyed tens of thousands of livelihoods and sacrificed thousands of people's crucial medical treatments for other life threatening disease for a flu that has killed about 2000 souls. That figure is likely to be an overstatement . Most of us will end our days ultimately finished off by a flu or another disease. My mother diagnosed with dementia died 2 years ago from a flu. Many vulnerable people die from flu every year. That's a sad fact of life. Some of the media commentary seems to ignore how people do actually die in real life. We cannot simply make prolonging lives an absolute priority as a society. The issue of our health service overwhelmed is an issue ultimately to be answered by our leaders who have created an inefficient, poor value for money and badly run service. The first Covid wave did not lead to the service being overwhelmed and the expensive private beds taken over by the state did not have to be used. This time around our experts have not asked for this safety net to be made available. Which is strange if the risk is as severe as they claim. We do need to ask if the cure is worse than the disease but few journalists do. Some medics who have spoken out have also been silenced or bullied which is profoundly sinister.
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Post by MaryB on Nov 19, 2020 0:12:51 GMT
Apart from people being very ill and deaths I do agree that the economic price is high. Again Members of my own family, one who runs his own business, has children mortgage etc. Is affected as he had to close his business which I hate to see happening, however he thinks it is the right action as he wants to protect his elderly parents, his family and others.
Yes I may be unusual with the amount of people I know who have had Covid - from a wide family circle. 2 relatives died, one was elderly and ill, the other middle aged with a family to support. 2 others were very ill, one got a serious lung infection from Covid which left him ill for ages after the Covid itself, he too has a family to support and can’t afford to be out of work. The case of the young man who is left with a serious health condition is the son of a friend.
This is far more infectious than the flu and its consequences still quite unknown.
The whole worls is affected by Covid 19 and no one seems to hace found a better way to deal with it than how we and others are handling it.
Nobody wants to be as we are now, until a better alternative way of dealing with it is found I think we have little choice. I find it hard to have no social contact and it will be a lonely Christmas even if the restrictions are mitigated as I will not meet with most of my family. It is a sacrifice for the common good and nurses and doctors have to be considered too. Even if we had optimum treatment facilities, an overwhelming number of people with Covid would be a lot of pressure on medical staff and tneir families and woukd affect the provision of other health services even more so than under present conditions.
I’m glad Maolsheachlain that you do not know of anyone infected with Covid 19 and I hope that you and yours stay safe and well.
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Post by Séamus on Dec 18, 2020 12:00:02 GMT
"the family becomes a cocoon. If you were to venture outside the streets are all but empty;a few children play with their new toys, and a car goes by bearing sons and sisters and cousins and in-laws from one family to the next,otherwise everyone is at home. It is as if the country had a million tiny hearts all warm and lightsome" Compare Hugh Leonard's piece about the Christmas day Dublin of his day with an anonymous journalist writing of England in 2020: "Silent Night,perfect delight Kith and kin,out of sight No more thoughts about family trees No relations here spreading disease Isolation is peace (isolation is peace)...."
"Hark the herald angels sing But we find it's quite a task Making out the words they bring When they mumble through a mask And our joy meets more resistance As they're keeping social distance Choral voices don't quite meet When strung out along the street...."
I'm not sure why the Grantham city councillors insist they need £100,000 of funding for the unveiling ceremony of a new Margaret Thatcher monument (30% of the statue's actual cost),besides the probable need to ward off the inevitable rotten tomatoes and eggs?,she might,at any rate, have had a snide giggle at "...A free trade deal is hard to do By Brexit day,by Brexit day The three ships had to join a queue On Brexit day in the morning The customs staff found goods to seize On Brexit day,on Brexit day Illegal imports, refugees On Brexit day in the morning"
As Beethoven's anniversary continues and as Britain no longer has enough claim on anything sung to Ode to Joy perhaps an Irishman(or alternatively a Euro-using Monégasque royal with a Sinead O'Connor haircut) can rework a covid version to "no man must stand alone with hands held out before him,reach out and take them in yours..."
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