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Post by cato on Jun 19, 2017 18:05:36 GMT
Rogerbuck inspired me to start this thread. Iconoclasm has infiltrated christianity 3 times - The Great original struggle within the Eastern Church , the destruction of relics, statues ,religious imagery , the doctrine of the communion of saints , the Marian Cult and the traditional Eucharistic practice and devotions which we call the Reformation and lastly and most mysteriously the attack on traditional church art ,liturgy and architecture that came after Vatican ii.
Millions were squandered on ripping out altars , pulling down statues and shrines and destroying anything that was perceived as backward or traditional. Who did this? Why generally the local priest claiming it was ordered from Rome. I have searched in vain for this Roman decree. It does not exist. Visit Rome and you will not see the same devastated church interiors there.
In Ireland Bishop Casey wrecked a beautiful Pugin designed Cathedral in Killarney . Cardinal O Fiach and Bishop Joseph Duffy of Clogher both history scholars seemed to have a passion for wrecking the actual physical churches we had , built in the poverty stricken post famine era.
Clogher diocese had a terrible reputation for church wrecking. A chapel designed by the Pearse brothers outside Ballyshannon Co Donegal was ripped apart . The pulpit and altar are now exhibits in the Pearse museum Rathfarnham.It was a shocking abuse of clerical power.
One of the saddest most pathetic examples of this rage against tradition was the campaign against the penal mass rocks which were "reordered" to suit a new mass that their original users would have been aghast or bewildered to witness!
Ironically a German Lutheran church on average will be more "catholic" in appearance than your typical English speaking catholic church.
And this was inflicted on parishes by men formed and ordained in the pre Vatican ii church!
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Post by Stephen on Jun 20, 2017 8:06:22 GMT
Jun 19, 2017 13:41:02 GMT 1 rogerbuck said: "Oh, heck, try as I might I can't resist quoting from my own book on the subject above  The bells were ringing from Monaghan Cathedral. I walked with her as she hurried towards it. It was a majestic neo-Gothic building on a hill, although Anna lamented that, following Vatican II, the sanctuary had been garishly transformed into a gruesome monstrosity, staggeringly and hideously incongruent with the original glory and splendour. When we reached the Cathedral, I said I’d like to come inside with her. Anna smiled at me, surprised. It would be my first ever Roman Catholic Mass. I knew I couldn’t partake of the bread or wine, but Anna said I could still receive a blessing. If I folded my hands over my chest, the priest wouldn’t give me the consecrated host, but bless me instead. I said I’d like that. That made her smile even more. She took my hand as we walked up the steps to the Cathedral. On entering, she dipped her hand in Holy Water and made the sign of the cross on my forehead.We sat down at the front of the Cathedral. Anna was right about the travesty there. It was like some UFO had flown in, randomly dropping weird alien objects around, which were completely at odds with the soaring gothic windows and arches." Hi Roger,
As my Wife is from Monaghan and I went to school there. I can attest to what Rodger is saying about the Vandalism of St Macartan Cathedral. The image of the current sanctuary does not do justice how revolting it is. ![]()    |
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Post by cato on Jun 20, 2017 10:56:12 GMT
Shocking images . Thanks for posting them. Sometimes you need to see the actual damage to appreciate the actual destruction.
Rather than have 2 threads start on a similar topic within 24 hours can Maolsheachlann or some kind soul quote my previous Iconoclasm thread and bring it over here and keep the subject in one place insofar is possible? Thanks , I am a bit of a luddite when it comes to posting but as a reactionary I do have a fondness for order.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 10:59:48 GMT
I've merged both these threads, as per cato's suggestion.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 11:06:13 GMT
I'm a bit of an outlier here in that I like some modernist churches and church decoration. They seem kind of "spacey" and make me contemplate the otherness of God.
However, the aesthetic of an already existing church should always be respected.
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Post by Stephen on Jun 20, 2017 13:05:42 GMT
I'm a bit of an outlier here in that I like some modernist churches and church decoration. They seem kind of "spacey" and make me contemplate the otherness of God. However, the aesthetic of an already existing church should always be respected. You are indeed an outlier. The churches you describe are a great example of what is wrong with our society today and how we look at beauty! (maybe I'm being harsh, could you post an image of such a "Church"  ) |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 13:13:34 GMT
Will do, Stephen, as soon as I can....
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 14:34:41 GMT
 I like Our Lady Queen of Heaven in Dublin Airport. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 14:35:23 GMT
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 20, 2017 14:44:13 GMT
I like Our Lady Queen of Heaven in Dublin Airport. Please tell me this is irony    |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 15:07:23 GMT
It is not irony! |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 20, 2017 15:13:59 GMT
The smileyface only expresses my amusement at being so out of step. I really do like that church!
I'm not defending it. Just admitting it!
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Post by MourningIreland on Jun 20, 2017 16:01:08 GMT
The smileyface only expresses my amusement at being so out of step. I really do like that church! I'm not defending it. Just admitting it! "Our Lady of the Ramada Inn" ![]()  |
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Post by seangladium on Jun 21, 2017 3:49:30 GMT
Wreckovation! How appalling! But at least the building remains (and the interior can hopefully be restored eventually). In my area the beautiful, older churches have actually been demolished, in many cases, as the closings of parishes continue and the modern post-60's churches have been kept (I am sure they will cite maintenance costs or some such nonsense). At least one of the nicer ones around here was turned into a bed and breakfast! In the city just to my north one of the nice older churches was torn down recently and turned into a bank. A few years afterward the bank took a direct hit by a tornado (perhaps a sign, eh?).
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Post by rogerbuck on Jun 21, 2017 10:44:30 GMT
Jun 19, 2017 13:41:02 GMT 1 rogerbuck said: "Oh, heck, try as I might I can't resist quoting from my own book on the subject above The bells were ringing from Monaghan Cathedral. I walked with her as she hurried towards it. It was a majestic neo-Gothic building on a hill, although Anna lamented that, following Vatican II, the sanctuary had been garishly transformed into a gruesome monstrosity, staggeringly and hideously incongruent with the original glory and splendour. When we reached the Cathedral, I said I’d like to come inside with her. Anna smiled at me, surprised. It would be my first ever Roman Catholic Mass. I knew I couldn’t partake of the bread or wine, but Anna said I could still receive a blessing. If I folded my hands over my chest, the priest wouldn’t give me the consecrated host, but bless me instead. I said I’d like that. That made her smile even more. She took my hand as we walked up the steps to the Cathedral. On entering, she dipped her hand in Holy Water and made the sign of the cross on my forehead.We sat down at the front of the Cathedral. Anna was right about the travesty there. It was like some UFO had flown in, randomly dropping weird alien objects around, which were completely at odds with the soaring gothic windows and arches." Hi Roger,
As my Wife is from Monaghan and I went to school there. I can attest to what Rodger is saying about the Vandalism of St Macartan Cathedral. The image of the current sanctuary does not do justice how revolting it is. ![]() Thank you for this, Stephen. I would add that to fully get just how bad it really is, one has to see not only the sanctuary as a whole, but each addition, piece by piece, tabernacle, altar, pulpit etc. I think I might have photos somewhere, because I wanted to record my disgust. But the photos still didn't capture it. You have to be there. To me, it seems far, far worse than Armagh or anything else I have seen in this country. And there is even a proud dedication there complimenting the designer/scupltor or whatever he was for bringing the Cathedral into alignment with the "liturgical norms of Vatican II" or some such words. If these are the liturgical norms of Vatican II that speaks volumes about Vatican II ...! And I would never want to be named if I had done this! Would hang my head in shame, rather. SaveSave |
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