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Post by kj on Oct 29, 2020 10:20:48 GMT
Three people have been killed in a church in Nice this morning by an Islamic terrorist. Two were beheaded, one of whom was a 70 year-old woman.
I was disturbed to read on an English Arab news site most commenters blaming Macron.
Having said that, when I saw the Erdogan cartoon published by Charlie Hebdo the other day my first thought was, "Someone will pay with their lives for this."
Free Speech must be defended, but there is also an issue about responsible use of free speech and not further aggravating an already inflammatory situation.
Let us hope God has taken the three victims into his Loving Care.
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Post by rogerbuck on Oct 30, 2020 12:40:48 GMT
Je ne suis pas Charlie.
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Post by assisi on Oct 30, 2020 17:33:16 GMT
Je n'ai jamais ete Charlie
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Post by cato on Oct 30, 2020 19:08:15 GMT
Free speech should not mean permission to be hurtfully nasty knowing it will provoke violence.
However I am not very happy knowing I might be hypothetically beheaded if I upset Moslems by saying something they say is hateful. Respect for others is needed but respect is a two way street and many in the West are reluctant to call out a violent response to crude self centred provocation.
I may have the right to go around waving a big red flag but doing it in front of a big easily agitated bull is asking for bother. It is tiresome to be constantly told the bull is really a frolicking lamb and we are racist to even think about doubting this.
Perhaps the provokers and the provoked have a lot more in common than appears at first glance?
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Post by Tomas on Oct 31, 2020 15:03:50 GMT
Free speech should not mean permission to be hurtfully nasty knowing it will provoke violence. However I am not very happy knowing I might be hypothetically beheaded if I upset Moslems by saying something they say is hateful. Respect for others is needed but respect is a two way street and many in the West are reluctant to call out a violent response to crude self centred provocation. I may have the right to go around waving a big red flag but doing it in front of a big easily agitated bull is asking for bother. It is tiresome to be constantly told the bull is really a frolicking lamb and we are racist to even think about doubting this. Perhaps the provokers and the provoked have a lot more in common than appears at first glance? Good image with the red flag and bull! Not many weeks ago a Danish right-wing extremist (no other label would provide) made a provocation charge in the nearby Malmö´s most renowned immigration district, hands on burning the Koran in front of his film camera. The posting on social media caused angry response and an infected verbal sluggering from the agitated camps. That was almost the same thing as those cheap "caricatures" being done on purpose to raise hell. Not all easy to swallow such manner from a non-extremist ethical point of view. To fire up extremism is hardly a way to reach solid peace in either short term or long term. |
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Post by cato on Oct 31, 2020 17:30:51 GMT
Free speech should not mean permission to be hurtfully nasty knowing it will provoke violence. However I am not very happy knowing I might be hypothetically beheaded if I upset Moslems by saying something they say is hateful. Respect for others is needed but respect is a two way street and many in the West are reluctant to call out a violent response to crude self centred provocation. I may have the right to go around waving a big red flag but doing it in front of a big easily agitated bull is asking for bother. It is tiresome to be constantly told the bull is really a frolicking lamb and we are racist to even think about doubting this. Perhaps the provokers and the provoked have a lot more in common than appears at first glance? Good image with the red flag and bull! Not many weeks ago a Danish right-wing extremist (no other label would provide) made a provocation charge in the nearby Malmö´s most renowned immigration district, hands on burning the Koran in front of his film camera. The posting on social media caused angry response and an infected verbal sluggering from the agitated camps. That was almost the same thing as those cheap "caricatures" being done on purpose to raise hell. Not all easy to swallow such manner from a non-extremist ethical point of view. To fire up extremism is hardly a way to reach solid peace in either short term or long term. Traditionally even free speech fundamentalists (ie virtually everyone once apon a time.) said no one had a right to cry fire in a crowded cinema. Presuming there was no fire naturally. Deliberately provoking people is not a right. Hence the dispute in Northern Ireland with Loyalists exercising a right to march on the Queen's highways, which just happened to pass Catholic churches and population areas! I am conflicted over the Islamic cartoon issue. Satirical often nasty cartoons are part of our culture for centuries. Part of the Islamic outrage may be a genuine upset at blasphemy , an upset we in modern Christianity have sadly abandoned. Killing the cartoonist is never appropriate or proportionate however. Ignoring them would be the best approach. There is a wider issue with how the cartoon outrages are used in Islamic countries to stir up the locals who often end up burning down a church or beheading some poor local Christian who has nothing to do with atheist inspired scribbles. To the best of my knowledge Islam rage as never been unleashed against the barbarous vicious Chinese persecution of Moslems in communist China. The main voices calling this out are ironically Christian charities and conservative journalists. The Vatican of course, is shamefully silent on this and the persecution of its own flock . |
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Post by hilary on Oct 31, 2020 19:38:54 GMT
Not France but Islam and Christianity - I learned of Hatun Tash online this week - a Christian woman evangelist who engages with Muslims every week at Speakers Corner in London and in mosques. She seems to be very brave and well able to argue. She uses props including a koran with holes punched in it. She was assaulted while speaking last week. Her group is Defend Christ critique Islam (DCCI ministries).
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