East Wall protests

Having a few prams dotting the crowds in the photos is an uplifting sign; I'd usually be sceptical about what exactly constitutes 'values' these days.
The current virtue signalling about Qatar is getting a bit eye-rolling.
[Take Islamic countries' participation (and money) for what they are or leave it for heaven's sakes.] What seems curious
about Qatar's case is the high number of Indian immigrants; the Hindu minority there is quite large- it's far from a 100% Muslim community.

The Saudi team for their part have proven that you can come out of a morally stringent (even totalitarian) regime with a healthy body at least. (Wonder if they'd every worn shorts in public before?)

My impression watching from afar was that the East Wall influx consists largely of middle-eastern males, but maybe I am wrong.

But your point about culture is accurate in my view. If the country primarily is viewed as nothing but essentially a legal set-up protecting consumerist citizens, then why worry where its members come from? Immigrants can be just as efficient consumers as anyone else, right?

If the culture were strong, then incomers would be obliged by necessity to adapt, but it's not and so they're not.

Having said that, if the basis of the protests are a) safety and b) more unwanted economic competition re jobs and rent etc then that's understandable.

One fact that has become pretty obvious in 2022 is that Ireland operates one of the most liberal open door immigration policies in Europe and probably globally. This has happened without any real debate in a state with severe housing and infrastructure problems which primarily hit working class areas. The UK is dealing with a refugee crisis too ,but its government sees it as a problem and wishes to restrict numbers. We are actively encouraging people to come here.

For two decades Irish long term homelessness figures have hovered at 10,000 , now over 11,OOO. There was little or no will to cut this figure. In fact it had been official government policy to abolish core long term homelessness by 2016 to honour the centenary of the foundation of the state. We have seen superhuman efforts to help the influx from Ukraine . At least 40,000 have been temporarily housed in the space of a few months. The contrast in treatment is stark and future generations will no doubt accuse us rightly of callous selfish indifference to our core homeless population.

There are three main streams of immigrants to Ireland at present. Up to 70,000 are expected from Ukraine. There are 10,000 + other asylum seekers and there are the normal EU citizens who come here by right under European free travel law. There are also people coming from the UK who have been refused leave to stay here.


The Irish government are claiming we have no choice in accepting the almost 100,000 of newcomers and most media and political figures accept this dubious assertion. Ireland seems to be accepting more incomers than other EU states who have exactly the same international obligations. Any treaty depends ultimately on the availability of resources. The estimated Irish figure is actually greater in percentage terms than the one million Syrian refugees accepted by Chancellor Merkel who suffered at the ballot box for her generosity.

The Irish debate has usually been silenced by accusations of Racism which automatically shuts down anyone other than the most thick skinned. I suspect social class is actually the most relevant factor in the East Wall case.

East Wall is a run down , drug infested dangerous area at night. There have been two notorious murders there in recent times one of a Mongolian citizen stabbed to death by an underage Irish boy. There are regular attacks on food delivery cyclists that don't even merit reporting. It is also the constituency of Taoiseach elect Mary Lou Mc Donald and Finance minister Paschal Hanrahan. The current protests caught the political establishment by surprise particularly Sinn Fein the party of Irish Nationalism (at least nominally).


In Dublin City refugee settlement appears to be concentrated in working class districts like East Wall. Posher areas have in recent years objected successfully via planning reviews to over 10,000 potential new dwellings. Many of those objections have been supported by left wing politicians in Labour and Sinn Fein .The more well heeled areas would recoil in horror if anyone suggested they had a racist motivation but their true motives are perhaps more base. They don't want poorer less suitable neighbours who might lower house prices , ruin the view or diminish the social ambiance.

We have international obligations certainly but there are matters of justice and fair play which are being ignored. Ireland surely exists in the first place to be the national home of the Irish people. We have treated the most vulnerable of our own citizens in a shabby manner. Now they are in direct competition with a variety of newcomers.

One particular scandal are people who lose their documents en route to Ireland. It appears they are permitted to abuse international rules in order to avail of a chaotic situation. This is a clear case of fraud which our government currently tolerates. These cases surely deserve automatic deportation?

KJ brought up this issue originally . I think the objections of ordinary citizens in East Wall tired at double standards and middle class hypocrisy may inspire others to say no and spark off a debate on this gigantic social issue which has been censored for far too long.

It would be better if Ireland could get the sides to consider a non-violent resolution of their differences.  It was sickening to hear some of the politicians talking about peace in Northern Ireland yesterday and no hard border - but no mention of the 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers who have died and only a determination to continue the war.   There's a lot of money to be made out of it obviously.


In a recent interview (26/11) for a film "Nazism on Trial", Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said:

Europe is playing along with the United States. The EU has almost no independence left. Washington has brought Brussels to heel. There are almost no independent voices left in the EU. Now and then, but increasingly less often, French President Emmanuel Macron is trying to remind everyone of the EU’s “strategic autonomy.” No one will let them create any kind of autonomy, let alone strategic.



European leaders are emboldening the Ukrainian government and encouraging neo-Nazi acts. President of the European Council Charles Michel, Head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen, and Secretary General of NATO Jens Stoltenberg never stop saying that a “battle for European values” is going on in Ukraine, and President Zelensky is “defending freedom and democracy.” In the same way, they backed the neo-Nazi coup of 2014 which sought to abolish everything that is Russian in Ukraine. Later, it was codified in numerous laws outlawing Russian education, media and culture. Today, they are supporting the slogans which Vladimir Zelensky is using to carry out his campaign and presidency.



I operate on the premise that Europe is part of the processes that seek to revive neo-Nazism. It’s hard to draw other conclusions. President Macron recently wondered why Ukraine should live according to a Russia-imposed model. A statement that says it all. In the years that followed the coup, he never asked why the Russians in Ukraine should live according to a model imposed by the neo-Nazis, which is a clear case of double standards. A person who claims to be the number one politician in Europe is saying things like that unashamedly. Amazing.


....... There are statistics showing that about 8 million Ukrainian refugees are now in Europe. There are media reports about some of them mistreating citizens of European countries and breaking the law. This is Europe’s choice. If they chose to provide shelter to Ukrainians, the vast majority of whom are people of means who want to continue to live like that going forward - then the people of Europe should feel the consequences of their choice for themselves. We saw similar things in a situation where the Europeans took in the militants from the North Caucasus during a rampage of international terrorism in that region of our country, or refugees from North Africa and the Middle East, including proponents and members of ISIS, who committed bloody crimes in a number of European countries. We do not wish evil to Europe. It must make up its own mind on what it wants to do.



The Arab Spring has created an enormous number of illegal migrants. The Europeans decided to give them legal status and began to place them on their territory and to agree on distribution quotas. The Arab Spring problem was created by military aggression, primarily, against Libya. That country was bombed out and turned into a black hole. It was later used as a conduit for refugees and illegal immigrants fleeing to Europe. Terrorists and weapons smugglers surged in the opposite direction to the Sahara-Sahel region. African countries are still dealing with the aftermath of the reckless Libyan operation, and the EU with the crowds of people of no definite occupation, not all of whom are willing to be law-abiding residents of the European countries.



Europe has created this situation in Ukraine, because it outright refused to convince Pyotr Poroshenko and then Vladimir Zelensky to honour the Minsk agreements. The EU was openly pandering to Kiev’s proclaimed policy for implementing Plan B to capture Donbass by force. This was the reason behind our special military operation. Over the years, we came to realise the futility of our trying to convince the West to consent to an equal and mutually respectful agreement on ensuring security for all without expanding the Alliance.



In this regard, Europe is, to a certain extent, acting as someone who is behind the current state of affairs as well. I hope that after the Arab Spring the EU will see the ongoing Ukrainian “wave” as food for thought, but so far the EU countries have not been thinking much about themselves. German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock made it clear (many are citing her) that she is aware of German voters’ issues, but it is now “more important” to meet Ukraine's needs for military help. With a philosophy like that, Europe… Well, I wish it good luck".

That all sounds right to me.  Certainly there are very few independent Irish politicians and the senior Government ministers yesterday all looked like they wanted to be Madame President's best boy in class.  Some of the others did look uncomfortable though, as well they might.  The Western values of freedom and democracy are under threat in Ireland to put it mildly  - you just have to look at how our media is controlled, how the Constitution was suspended for an "emergency" and how Enoch Burke is still in prison. 

Interesting that Lavrov says that the Ukrainians who are being sheltered are people of means.  I'm sure they find Ireland expensive but it would be interesting to know how well off they are. 

"And I'm becoming irritated that the Irish right, far-right, populist right, whatever, are SO focused on immigration. It's almost the only issue now, and the rhetoric can get quite ugly."

Sort of hard not to be focused on an issue which literally determines the fate of your entire people. Unsurprisingly, the idea of being racially replaced in your own country doesn't go down well with people. People are sick of the hypocrisy of race-politics, and before anyone says "It's not right when anyone does it", the problem is, you probably don't really care when non-white people do it. Even among conservatives or right wing people, the only time they ever seem capable of mustering up any outrage is when it's white people discussing the issue of race. Non-white people slander white people and treat us like crap, you'll probably get some folding of arms and disapproving head-shakes at best. It's a disgrace.


"If people practiced their traditions and culture they wouldn't have to worry so much about immigration."

I don't understand the connection here. You're saying practicing those things would stop immigration? Or that people should be more focused on tradition and culture than immigration? I've raised the point before, but what good is a tradition and culture if the ones responsible for it don't even exist? And that's making the charitable assumption that those traditions and cultures would somehow survive, which they won't. 


"If the country primarily is viewed as nothing but essentially a legal set-up protecting consumerist citizens, then why worry where its members come from?"

Key word being "if". How many ordinary Irish people see the country as just some machine akin to what you described? Very few if any, I imagine. This mentality is something belonging to a (modern) politician or a business man. Also, if "citizens" can just be anyone from anywhere, how is that any different from a globalist blob? If the make-up of countries are that fluid, then countries essentially don't exist. 

But, who then do we quote? A decrepit liberal in the White House who thinks that kids can mutilate their bodies in order to find happiness? A regime that hates its own country and flourishes by promoting racial disharmony and sexual confusion? No right minded person or nation wants Western liberalism anywhere near them. An America that  is delighted to use the citizens of Ukraine as a proxy to weaken and destroy Russia that it sees as a competitor?