|
|
Post by kj on Aug 5, 2023 10:44:07 GMT
Indifferentism is a topic that sits on my brain a lot. What I'm referring to is the fact that there is a small active cohort of people online (such as here) and a small number on the streets who seek to defend a traditional view of Irish culture, religion and identity, but it strikes me as correct to say that the vast majority of Irish simply do not care about such things.
So it seems you either become a Vanguardist or resign yourself.
"It wasn't the Muslims who emptied the churches. It's the French who stopped attending them." - Patrick Buisson.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 8, 2023 12:01:21 GMT
In the past, I've thought that art is the way to rouse the masses. Novels, poetry, music, trying to awaken them to an appreciation of what they have lost. Much in the way that the novels of Sir Walter Scott awakened in the British a new interest in their own past. And, indeed, the forerunners of the Gaelic Revival, such as Thomas Davis. I think this might be the way to go, but it's a tough task.
|
|
|
|
Post by hilary on Aug 9, 2023 17:16:54 GMT
In the past, I've thought that art is the way to rouse the masses. Novels, poetry, music, trying to awaken them to an appreciation of what they have lost. Much in the way that the novels of Sir Walter Scott awakened in the British a new interest in their own past. And, indeed, the forerunners of the Gaelic Revival, such as Thomas Davis. I think this might be the way to go, but it's a tough task. |
|
|
|
Post by Starlight on Aug 12, 2023 14:53:57 GMT
I think if you ask most Irish people whether they care about Irish culture and identity they will say yes.
Irish people do seem mostly indifferent or opposed to religion. Very few people want to go back to those days again.
|
|
|
|
Post by hilary on Aug 13, 2023 15:45:35 GMT
Irish people do seem mostly indifferent or opposed to religion. Very few people want to go back to those days again. That indifference or opposition leads them to act in ways that cause suffering for themselves and others though. They act as if there is no guidebook for life when there is. They don't have the tools to allow them to reflect and admit that their actions have consequences. A good example is Sean Moncrieff - writing in the Irish Times yesterday about his daughter "coming out" as gay and how he had "selfishly hoped his kids wouldn't be gay" but it turned out to be fine when he heard about it. To be gay is becoming less and less of a big deal and "when she has daughters of her own and a column in the Irish Times" it will be even less of an issue. He says, however, that the trans "debate" is still venomous. There's so much to unpack there. First he doesn't question whether his marriage break-up with his daughter's mother (after 25 years of marriage apparently), and the arrival of a new woman and daughter in his life, might have had anything to do with why his daughter experienced "discordance" with boys. Or if it is why his attitude has changed. Maybe he did or does question it but probably not out loud and definitely not in his column in the Irish Times. That would not be an article that the IT would need. In relation to the trans issue he does not go there, in the article anyway, and although at first I understood him to mean that society had not accepted trans people, maybe he is keeping his options open by saying "the trans debate is still venomous". The assumption that his daughter will have children is treated casually too. Whether it is by IVF or surrogacy there are complicated moral, health and family repercussions that are not there (for the child and parents) in the stable married mother and father type situation. I hope his daughter and her partner will give boys (or the single life) another chance. |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Aug 13, 2023 16:51:44 GMT
I think if you ask most Irish people whether they care about Irish culture and identity they will say yes. Irish people do seem mostly indifferent or opposed to religion. Very few people want to go back to those days again. Most seem oblivious to the fact there is no such thing as a living non Christian Irish Culture . Almost every aspect of our national existence has been based for better or worse on a link with Christian teaching belief and living. One of the most startling aspects of the Irish revolution for example of 100 years ago is an incredible level of public visible religiosity. At many key events the GPO in 1916 , the various executions outside jails like Mountjoy and in London at the Treaty talks we see large crowds praying the rosary in public, often kneeling in the streets This aspect of Irish life has been almost totally ignored in the popular and academic coverage of the state's decade of centenaries now drawing to a close. Catholicism is deeply unfashionable now at best and at worst a deadly inhuman blight on national life. |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Aug 13, 2023 17:01:07 GMT
Indifference is worse than anti Christian or anti tradition. At least those who oppose you have some passion or take you seriously.
Increasing material comfort does seem to lead to apathy among many and less of a desire to engage in any social movement be that political, religious or voluntary work.
Ireland has full employment at present a rare achievement for the last century but it is a deeply uncertain and discontented place. We seem to have no leaders who speak the truth with any authority. We are shepherdless sheep.
|
|
|
|
Post by Starlight on Aug 14, 2023 14:56:05 GMT
If the choice is between modern-day Ireland and Ireland when the Catholic Church had power; I choose modern Ireland.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 14, 2023 16:01:54 GMT
If the choice is between modern-day Ireland and Ireland when the Catholic Church had power; I choose modern Ireland. Were you alive when the Catholic Church had power? I wouldn't know how to answer such a hypothetical question myself. I'm the sort of person who would always prefer to be behind enemy lines, so I'm happy to be going against the tide in liberal-secular-globalist Ireland. But, despite that preference, I wish the Church had power (it was really influence rather than power) today. |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Aug 14, 2023 22:13:25 GMT
If the choice is between modern-day Ireland and Ireland when the Catholic Church had power; I choose modern Ireland. Who is proposing this rather stark option? The idea the church ie clergy ran the state is fanciful. In former times freely believing catholic laity replaced a formally alien Anglican inspired government with a native conservative catholic alternative. It was widely popular but unpopular with intellectuals and some minority groups. The clergy imposed very little that most people didnt approve of. Most of their attitudes reflected popular prejudices and opinions up to at least the early 1990s. Once people lost faith ( for a varity of reasons ) and stopped going to Sunday mass the power of the clergy collapsed. No one was killed in the most radical revolution in Irish history. |
|
