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Post by connacht4096 on Jan 26, 2024 20:19:44 GMT
the Irish language is the sole native language of ireland. Irish is the oldest written vernacular language in Europe; having a written form dating back to a time when Greek and Latin were dead as vernacular languages yet almost all writing was in them. Irish is a unique part of the heritage of the Irish people; belonging to no one else. I think most people here agree it should be restored and again become the language of almost all the Irish people (even if some view that as an unacheivable dream). I actually get the sense that many Irish people would like that at least in the abstract (it is too bad there is no way to program Irish into people as they sleep; as done in brave new world; I think many Irish people would voluntarily sign up for that; I have encountered people who want to be able to speak Irish but find learning it so much work). what I am seeking is answers on the intensity of this preference. what would you give to make Irish again the primary language of the nation? if you have seen some of my previous posts on the topic of language revival you probably can geuss where my own opinion is; but i'll share it later.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 27, 2024 12:57:37 GMT
If a genie told me that having my left hand chopped off would restore the Irish language, I would agree to have it chopped off. Not my right, as that's my writing hand. I suppose I could write everything in longhand.
I'm not sure how to take the question outside a fantasy scenario. If I interpret it as "What other objective would you sacrifice ahead of the restoration of the Irish language?", I could list many. I would certainly put the restoration of the language ahead of a united Ireland.
I suppose we could also ask what "restoration" means. Does it mean Irish becoming the equivalent of English today, the language of ordinary communication in Ireland? I can't envisage that ever happen, except perhaps in the distant future. "Restoration" meaning "Irish being regularly used in ordinary life" would be enough for me.
Connacht had various proposals for restoring the Irish language using compulsion. I don't agree with these, partly because I don't think they would ever work. However, I would certainly countenance SOME compulsion. For instance, compulsory Irish in schools is already an element of compulsion, and I'm fine with that. Some kind of quota for Irish language programming on Irish TV and radio-- well in advance of what we have now-- would also be OK with me. Or SOME proficiency in Irish being a requirement of new citizens.
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Post by connacht4096 on Jan 27, 2024 20:47:40 GMT
let me give precision to the term "restoration"; I mean its reinstatement as the native language of the majority of the Irish people; and in a state strong enough that it does not decline; and which even native English speakers in this land would have reason to at least know basic Irish; preferably with at least some monoglot speakers (though those can be few; there has been at least one in my life time; as Seán Ó hEinirí died three years after I was born, not that I knew him personally or anything, had to look up his name just now); given the global prominence of English; Irish may need a lopsided majority to maintain itself naturally, and a degree of purging of English speakers from power and prominence to ensure its continuation; but that is more a question of how then of broad principle. in short, a situation where it is beyond any doubt that article 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann represents a lived reality on the ground and tells people exactly what they already know; and this situation being capable of continuing forever. that is what I mean by restoring Irish. does that help others know what I mean?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 28, 2024 15:00:52 GMT
let me give precision to the term "restoration"; I mean its reinstatement as the native language of the majority of the Irish people; and in a state strong enough that it does not decline; and which even native English speakers in this land would have reason to at least know basic Irish; preferably with at least some monoglot speakers (though those can be few; there has been at least one in my life time; as Seán Ó hEinirí died three years after I was born, not that I knew him personally or anything, had to look up his name just now); given the global prominence of English; Irish may need a lopsided majority to maintain itself naturally, and a degree of purging of English speakers from power and prominence to ensure its continuation; but that is more a question of how then of broad principle. in short, a situation where it is beyond any doubt that article 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann represents a lived reality on the ground and tells people exactly what they already know; and this situation being capable of continuing forever. that is what I mean by restoring Irish. does that help others know what I mean? I just don't think it's ever going to happen, at least in any foreseeable timeframe. It's better to concentrate on achievable goals, in my view. |
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Post by connacht4096 on Jan 28, 2024 22:41:31 GMT
let me give precision to the term "restoration"; I mean its reinstatement as the native language of the majority of the Irish people; and in a state strong enough that it does not decline; and which even native English speakers in this land would have reason to at least know basic Irish; preferably with at least some monoglot speakers (though those can be few; there has been at least one in my life time; as Seán Ó hEinirí died three years after I was born, not that I knew him personally or anything, had to look up his name just now); given the global prominence of English; Irish may need a lopsided majority to maintain itself naturally, and a degree of purging of English speakers from power and prominence to ensure its continuation; but that is more a question of how then of broad principle. in short, a situation where it is beyond any doubt that article 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann represents a lived reality on the ground and tells people exactly what they already know; and this situation being capable of continuing forever. that is what I mean by restoring Irish. does that help others know what I mean? I just don't think it's ever going to happen, at least in any foreseeable timeframe. It's better to concentrate on achievable goals, in my view. I should further clarify is that situation is of the "ultimate goal" nature; not the "let's accomplish this exact step right away one". making the number of first language Irish speakers not decline should probably be step one; if the goal I outlined were achieved; I would consider the Irish language question solved and something we (meaning all Irish people and people of Irish descent) can all move on from; the idea of eradicating English from this land is primarily one person's revenge thoughts (though I cannot be the only person to ever have them; I appear to be the only one willing to voice them on this particular forum) joining forces with "if you shoot for the stars; you might hit the moon"; something about figuring out the most realistic way to achieve unrealistic goals appeals to me; even if that outcome does happen I expect not that I will be alive to see it; perhaps any great great great grandchildren but not myself (I know my great great great grandfather's native language was Irish even though he did speak English); the thing about language restoration is that every extent to which it can go will by itself by definition accomplish lesser degrees; so seeing how close we can get is a fine approach; ideals to be aimed for stand distinct from exact short term achievements; motion in the right direction needs to be immediate; reaching the destination does not. Go fuil beo Gaeilge go deo! |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 29, 2024 9:24:52 GMT
I just don't think it's ever going to happen, at least in any foreseeable timeframe. It's better to concentrate on achievable goals, in my view. I should further clarify is that situation is of the "ultimate goal" nature; not the "let's accomplish this exact step right away one". making the number of first language Irish speakers not decline should probably be step one; if the goal I outlined were achieved; I would consider the Irish language question solved and something we (meaning all Irish people and people of Irish descent) can all move on from; the idea of eradicating English from this land is primarily one person's revenge thoughts (though I cannot be the only person to ever have them; I appear to be the only one willing to voice them on this particular forum) joining forces with "if you shoot for the stars; you might hit the moon"; something about figuring out the most realistic way to achieve unrealistic goals appeals to me; even if that outcome does happen I expect not that I will be alive to see it; perhaps any great great great grandchildren but not myself (I know my great great great grandfather's native language was Irish even though he did speak English); the thing about language restoration is that every extent to which it can go will by itself by definition accomplish lesser degrees; so seeing how close we can get is a fine approach; ideals to be aimed for stand distinct from exact short term achievements; motion in the right direction needs to be immediate; reaching the destination does not. Go fuil beo Gaeilge go deo!Aontaim leat go h-iomlán mar gheall leis an méid sin (seachas an líne faoi dioltas i gcuinne Bearlóirí). Ní mór dúínn cuspóir ollmhór a bheith againn fiú chun cuspóir measartha a bhaint amach. Silím afách gur bhfuil méid mór bainte amach againn mar tír chun an Gaeilge a caoimniú. B'fheidir gur bhfuil líon na Gaeilgeoirí san Gaeltacht ag titim ach tá siad ag fás lasmuigh de sin. |
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eala
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Post by eala on Mar 8, 2024 22:21:59 GMT
the Irish language is the sole native language of ireland. Irish is the oldest written vernacular language in Europe; having a written form dating back to a time when Greek and Latin were dead as vernacular languages yet almost all writing was in them. Irish is a unique part of the heritage of the Irish people; belonging to no one else. I think most people here agree it should be restored and again become the language of almost all the Irish people (even if some view that as an unacheivable dream). I actually get the sense that many Irish people would like that at least in the abstract (it is too bad there is no way to program Irish into people as they sleep; as done in brave new world; I think many Irish people would voluntarily sign up for that; I have encountered people who want to be able to speak Irish but find learning it so much work). what I am seeking is answers on the intensity of this preference. what would you give to make Irish again the primary language of the nation? if you have seen some of my previous posts on the topic of language revival you probably can geuss where my own opinion is; but i'll share it later. Cad a tabharfainn? Am agus fuinneamh ar líofacht? Molfainn amhlaidh duit. An fiú duit bheith ag caint ar seo (arís) trí Bhéarla in ionad an Ghaeilge a labhairt? Tá ceist na Gaeilge leadránach a ndóthan i nGaeilge gan trácht ar i mBéarla. Ceannaigh leabhar gramadaí, bí foghlaim, bí ag caint, bí ag léamh, sin réiteach na faidhbe |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 9, 2024 18:08:51 GMT
the Irish language is the sole native language of ireland. Irish is the oldest written vernacular language in Europe; having a written form dating back to a time when Greek and Latin were dead as vernacular languages yet almost all writing was in them. Irish is a unique part of the heritage of the Irish people; belonging to no one else. I think most people here agree it should be restored and again become the language of almost all the Irish people (even if some view that as an unacheivable dream). I actually get the sense that many Irish people would like that at least in the abstract (it is too bad there is no way to program Irish into people as they sleep; as done in brave new world; I think many Irish people would voluntarily sign up for that; I have encountered people who want to be able to speak Irish but find learning it so much work). what I am seeking is answers on the intensity of this preference. what would you give to make Irish again the primary language of the nation? if you have seen some of my previous posts on the topic of language revival you probably can geuss where my own opinion is; but i'll share it later. Cad a tabharfainn? Am agus fuinneamh ar líofacht? Molfainn amhlaidh duit. An fiú duit bheith ag caint ar seo (arís) trí Bhéarla in ionad an Ghaeilge a labhairt? Tá ceist na Gaeilge leadránach a ndóthan i nGaeilge gan trácht ar i mBéarla. Ceannaigh leabhar gramadaí, bí foghlaim, bí ag caint, bí ag léamh, sin réiteach na faidhbe Réiteach ró-shimplí (ní ró-easca) i dtuaraim morán... |
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eala
Full Member
Posts: 156
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Post by eala on Mar 17, 2024 15:53:03 GMT
Cad a tabharfainn? Am agus fuinneamh ar líofacht? Molfainn amhlaidh duit. An fiú duit bheith ag caint ar seo (arís) trí Bhéarla in ionad an Ghaeilge a labhairt? Tá ceist na Gaeilge leadránach a ndóthan i nGaeilge gan trácht ar i mBéarla. Ceannaigh leabhar gramadaí, bí foghlaim, bí ag caint, bí ag léamh, sin réiteach na faidhbe Réiteach ró-shimplí (ní ró-easca) i dtuaraim morán... níos easca a bheith ag olagón faoi cheisteanna mhora teibí i mBéarla ná í a fhoghlaim, |
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