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Post by irishmonarchist on Mar 22, 2024 15:10:38 GMT
I am looking for people interested in discussing the prospect of monarchy in Ireland, it can truly help re-gaelicise our country and may help further our conservative beliefs. If you are interested, message me. But in the meantime in this thread, what do you guys think of a monarchy?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 22, 2024 21:57:25 GMT
I'm in favour of a crowned republic, pretty much, a ceremonial monarchy.
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Post by cato on Mar 25, 2024 12:02:38 GMT
Theres one across the water that many Irish people do look to as part of their culture and heritage. Where will that link go in a united Ireland?
Irish Catholics as far as we can tell didn't deny the English crown as legitimate over Ireland even during penal times. The Gaelic Irish aristocratic class and poets had a strong and perhaps naive devotion to the Stuart monarchs.
Irish Republican ideology stems from the English civil war, the execution of King Charles I and ironically Cromwell. Cromwellian preachers and dissenters mistrusted all earthly Kings but also despised Catholicism. The bishops were wise to be wary of 18th century Republican ideology.
There was never a popular movement to revive an Irish High King or a Gaelic equivalent of the English Crown. To attempt that now would be unhistorical, novel and deeply untraditional.
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Post by maxpower on Mar 25, 2024 14:26:00 GMT
Personally, I would be very much opposed to having a monarchy in Ireland. I think the British monarchy is a bit ridiculous and can't understand why there are so many over there that support an unelected head of state that enrich themselves just because of being born in the right family. I would imagine having a monarchy in Ireland would be quite unpopular as well, considering the amount of people that call themselves republican.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 25, 2024 15:08:09 GMT
My favourite defence of monarchy is C.S. Lewis's: "It would be much more rational to abolish the English monarchy. But how if, by doing so, you leave out the one element in our state which matters most? How if the Monarchy is the channel through which all the vital elements of citizenship – loyalty, the consecration of secular life, the hierarchical principal, splendour, ceremony, continuity – still trickle down to irrigate the dustbowl of modern economic Statecraft?” I suppose the point is that rationality, or at least rationalism, can have quite a corrosive effect on society. The things that really bind and elevate a society are non-rational or perhaps supra-rational. Before I became aware, through the internet, of various right-wing circles, I thought I was heroically contrarian and singular in supporting monarchy. Now I realize that there is a whole monarchist community. It doesn't always appeal to me, there's a lot of social snobbery and anti-democracy and elitism (the bad sort of elitism) involved in it, as far as I can tell. Most likely if any of us had lived in the pre-modern era we would have been peasants, not aristocrats. My monarchism is pretty much a belief that it's nice to have someone to put on stamps and to present trophies at sporting occasions-- someone that, precisely because they are there because of an accident of birth, can represent the nation as a whole (and, even more importantly, through time), not whatever ideological elite exists at the moment. I don't mind it being ahistorical so much. Traditions have to start somewhere. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NewerThanTheyThink
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Post by Tomas on Mar 26, 2024 8:09:51 GMT
Monarchy can be very different depending on mandates, religion, traditions. Today mostly representatives. Still much in its favour. Rational Statecraft or efficiency as argument is not pleasant. Republican leaders may be just as wicked as any King or Queen.
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Post by cato on Mar 27, 2024 18:36:18 GMT
We could elect a monarch by random lottery for a 12 month period to fulfill the symbolic role of the current office of President. Naturally it should be restricted to a group of sensible elder citizens of sound mind. He/she would be forbidden to make political speeches. It would be a compromise between classical constitutions and the modern without having the bother of elections.
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Post by Séamus on Mar 28, 2024 5:59:40 GMT
We could elect a monarch by random lottery for a 12 month period to fulfill the symbolic role of the current office of President. Naturally it should be restricted to a group of sensible elder citizens of sound mind. He/she would be forbidden to make political speeches. It would be a compromise between classical constitutions and the modern without having the bother of elections. They've had similar arrangements through history and even currently with revolving monarchies in Malaysia and historically in Poland, something different again in UAE. Filí might be a good title, whether the person had literary talent or not, obviously the person won't be royal per se. The Australian governor general is approved by the government rather than elected and candidates who have never had party membership seem universally preferred. Touching that the Princess of Wales, when she couldn't make her annual patronal appointment on St Patrick's Day, at least bought all the so-called Irish guards a Guinness this year.
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Post by Starlight on Apr 20, 2024 14:52:29 GMT
I had a Portuguese flatmate who I would often have friendly debates with. He was pro-monarchy while I argued for a republic.
The conversation went back and forth for an hour. He was stubborn, as was I, and I knew I couldn't sway his mind. Eventually, I relented and agreed that I would support a monarchy but only if I was king!
There was a flash of doubt across his eyes for the first time. I think the though of him having to bow before me did more damage than an hour of argument!
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