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Post by kj on Jul 30, 2017 18:30:00 GMT
www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jul/30/sunday-times-accused-of-antisemitism-over-column-on-bbc-presenters?CMP=share_btn_fbA few points: 1) Clearly Myers was an idiot to think he could write what he did and get away with it. The arrogance of opinion piece writers who start believing their own bull. 2) What idiot editor allowed it to pass to print? An anti-semite or just a moron? 3) Myers was on a panel this weekend with Rabbi Julia Neuberger at the West Cork History Festival. Would love to know how that went down. 4) Although I like some of Myers' stuff, I have little pity for him here. What he wrote was cliched, stereotyped and insulting. Obviously he thought he was fireproof. It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, will employ him now, as once you're accused of anti-semitism there's rarely a way back.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 30, 2017 18:35:35 GMT
I remember reading the Holocaust column it guotes. The quotation is taken completely out of context. Myers was being provocative, and immediately qualified his remarks-- he was talking about the technical term "Holocaust", or something like that. He was basically trying to show how easy it is to twist words. Now the Guardian are doing it to him, which is ironic.
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Post by kj on Jul 30, 2017 18:37:18 GMT
Whatever about the Holocaust thing, his comments about Jews and money were cliches of the worst kind. I have little sympathy.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 30, 2017 19:45:54 GMT
I can understand you not having sympathy, but say the remark was about the Irish and drink. Or the Irish and fighting. Would you care? I wouldn't care. I might think, "That's a cheap stereotype", but I'd consider somebody getting sacked to be excessive.
I should clarify that I do believe anti-semitism is one of the few prejudices that, in my view, really is rampant and isn't exaggerated by PC. But even still, I don't think he should have been sacked.
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Post by cato on Jul 30, 2017 20:11:17 GMT
Ironically Myers is a defender of modern Israel and one of the few journalists who have the balls to openly criticise the Hamas fascists in the middle East who are subsidised by the EU and who want to wipe out Israel.
His big mouth got him in trouble on this occasion but the hysteria being whipped up around this is deeply mischevious. The main source of real anti semitic violence and hatred in Europe is largely ignored if not semi -tolerated.
I hope this also means that anti catholic diatribes will be rigorously censored in future in the Sunday Times.
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Post by cato on Jul 30, 2017 20:53:24 GMT
The "offensive" holocaust denying article cravenly removed 8 years after it was written by the Irish Independent can be found on page 44 of More Myers An Irishman's Diary 1997-2006 published by Lilliput in 2007.
Faux outrage or what?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 30, 2017 20:56:03 GMT
I remember reading the article, and thinking it was kind of lame.
But his basic argument-- that Holocauast denial shouldn't be a crime-- is one I agree with.
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Post by kj on Jul 30, 2017 21:25:04 GMT
He deserved what he got because the link between Jews and money was one of the regular weapons of Nazi propaganda used to stir up hatred, which he is repeating. Plus, there is a resurgence of anti-semitism, and combined with the accusations of that phenomenon in the British Labour party, there was no way the Sunday Times were not going to fire him. He has no one to blame but himself for repeating and endorsing crude stereotypes.
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Post by cato on Jul 30, 2017 22:38:19 GMT
Kj the biggest supporter of modern anti semitism are Islamists as has been pointed out by all of two Irish journalists ,one of whom was sacked for "anti semitism" today. Most of their ranting is ignored or denied when it translates into real hatefulled violence.
The Uk labour party as you point out has a shameful record of tolerance towards anti semites. It got an increased vote in the last UK election. Jeremy Corbyn is a long time Hamas supporter and apologist but also a media darling. Who is demanding his head on a plate? And why not?
Myers today annoyed feminists particularly well heeled ones funded by the tax payer. He was stupid enough to give them some rope to hang him. It's typical of liberal tolerance there was no attempt to dialogue or listen to what he said before he "got the boot". And yes the thought police want to prevent him writing journalism . On any subject. For ever.
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Post by kj on Jul 31, 2017 7:15:25 GMT
Cato, you seem to imply the anti-semitism accusation is just a smokescreen to fire him for his comments on gender. I respectfully disagree.
I read the column. It all seemed the usual Myers self-satisfied contrarianism, nothing particularly exciting, until suddenly you reach this bizarre paragraph on Jews. It's as if you're back reading something from the Deutsche Beobachter in 1930s Germany.
I think Myers got cocky. He was so used to decades of insulting Irish people and getting away with it that he thought he could casually do the same with Jews. Big mistake. Perhaps it simply means Jews have more self-respect than the Irish, who accept being insulted and stereotyped.
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Post by cato on Jul 31, 2017 8:23:27 GMT
Kj I havent read the Deutcher whatever or any 1930s nazi newspapers so you have an advantage over me.
You replied to none of the remarks I made about the source of real anti semitism and how Myers was bizarrely one of those very rare things in Ireland a public defender of Israel.
Is he sexist or guilty of gender heresy? I think he challenged feminist dogmas and dared to criticise wealthy female broadcasters subsidised by licence holders.
My personal opinion is they are are all over paid.
RTE is a leftist luffy camp which should be privitised and the TV licence should be abolished. Why is the state making TV programmes when it can't provide reliable clean water?
Quoting the Guardian should merit an immediate excommunication on this site.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 31, 2017 8:43:56 GMT
No excommunications here!  |
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Post by kj on Jul 31, 2017 9:23:02 GMT
Cato, he wasn't booted over the gender comments, so I think that is of no relevance to the discussion. He has aired such views before and no one cared.
As for Israel, one's views on that country don't necessarily imply either anti or philo-semitism. He's defended Israel, so that means it's ok for him to indulge in the crudest of racial stereotypes about Jews?
There are Israelis and Jews who sympathise with Hamas. There are Israeli Arabs who hate Hamas. It's not all black and white.
Myers is being judged on his comments about Jews and money, simple as that.
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Post by cato on Jul 31, 2017 10:34:52 GMT
I can't name one defender of the right of Israel to exist who 'hates' Jews... apart from Kevin Myers !! Jews supporting Hamas are like catholics who deny Christ's divinity or who are pro choice. They do exist. We used to call them Apostates.
Myers holocaust "denials" seem to be a pedantic discussion about numbers and the etymology of the word holocaust. He doesn't deny the actual historical acts of Nazi genocide against Jews which is what I would regard as actual holocaust denial. No one seems to be bothered to read any more what people actually write.
Myers made the cardinal error of providing a news story during the quiet summer news season. Rent a mob are probably out with their pitchforks seeking to burn him at the stake as we speak. His real crime is his anti politically correct views on a wide range of issues. His throw away remarks yesterday provided his opponents with the means to silence him.Free speech is fine as long as you parrot the accepted line on Islam on feminism on climate change on emigration etc etc
Is it really shocking and horror of horrors offensive to make remarks about rich Jews? Many very smart people are Jewish . Many leading figures in history were Jewish. As a small religion they are high achievers and do punch above their weight of numbers. Is it offensive to point this out or is this now no longer kosher?
In the same Sunday news paper on page 22 Richard Dawkins made nasty comments on aborting Downs Syndrome babies. I find this grossly offensive yet I don't think it is right to silence his odious opinions. No one seems to have spilled their cornflakes over his views yesterday. It's a strange old world.
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Post by kj on Jul 31, 2017 10:50:11 GMT
As I said, his remarks are fuel for the rising tide of anti-semitism in Europe.
Peter Hitchens wrote a column recently about the gender pay gap that said almost the same thing as Myers and almost no one batted an eyelid, possibly because he didn't engage in crude racial stereotyping.
KM has no one to blame but himself.
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