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Post by cato on Apr 28, 2022 11:05:08 GMT
Using a vomiting emoji would suggest you may have been upset. You could have queried my argument or point of view instead. That is the custom on this site.
Kitty was English born but is as closely linked with Irish history as executed Republican martyrs like James Connolly and Erskine Childers. I never knew she was a prostitute or are you just indulging in casual misogyny ?
Historical significance or greatness does not necessarily indicate virtue or someone we might admire as a role model. Napoleon or Julius Caesar were historically great but did many bad things. I was refering to her historical significance. Had Ireland achieved Home Rule with Parnell as prime minister we might live in a very different Ireland.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 28, 2022 12:36:09 GMT
Using a vomiting emoji would suggest you may have been upset. You could have queried my argument or point of view instead. That is the custom on this site. Kitty was English born but is as closely linked with Irish history as executed Republican martyrs like James Connolly and Erskine Childers. I never knew she was a prostitute or are you just indulging in casual misogyny ? Historical significance or greatness does not necessarily indicate virtue or someone we might admire as a role model. Napoleon or Julius Caesar were historically great but did many bad things. I was refering to her historical significance. Had Ireland achieved Home Rule with Parnell as prime minister we might live in a very different Ireland. Using a vomiting emoji means the idea make me sick or is distaste full. "I will vomit you out". I would not allow her to be greatest Irish Women if she is clearly English (Its not like her parent arrived in Ireland when she was a child and this to me is a push). St Patrick shall be allowed to be greatest Irish man I suppose in your book (I would argue is more fair than Kitty). A Harlot in my book, is a woman who has casual sexual encounters or relationships with other men than her husband. Casual misogyny (Adulatory is a problem). I would agree that Historical significance or greatness does not necessarily indicate virtue or someone we might admire as a role model. Ireland did not achieved Home Rule with Parnell as prime minister and if she didn't exist we don't know if he would have done anything.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 28, 2022 14:30:00 GMT
Edel Quinn would be a good candidate for greatest Irishwoman, in my view.
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Post by cato on Apr 28, 2022 17:36:53 GMT
I was thinking the good people of the kingdom of kerry have a good claim on the greatest Irishman ever. St Brendan the Navigator is reputed to have discovered Iceland and the USA before all those other pesky Europeans . I wonder could we lodge a territorial claim? On the exploring theme Tom Crean the polar explorer and the subject of an ever running play hails from Kerry . William Melville the head of the UK secret service and the original M is a citizen of Sneem. I wonder was there a Victorian 007? Lord Kitchener of Khartoum the war minister during the great war and the face on the most iconic famous poster ever is from Kerry (Che Guevara eat your heart out) The bold Dr Eamonn Casey , one of Ireland's episcopal social justice warriors (who bravely burned his BA when the dark lord Ronald Reagan invaded Ireland) wrecked Pugin's masterpiece in Killarney Cathedral , killed numerous Kerry sheepdogs, set up Irelands most sucessful socialist lobby group Trocaire, and finally helped collapse 1400 years of Irish catholicism and a son of Kerry might merit the coveted title too. Someone mentioned that other Kerry boy Daniel O Connell who was the founder of the pro-choice movement in the 1840s. I think I ll quote myself from 5 years ago. Up Kerry!
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Post by cato on Apr 28, 2022 17:55:58 GMT
I am going to cheat and name several candidates in different categories though. I am trying to look at their impact and why they can be considered great. Maolsheachlann mentions St Patrick and in terms of religious impact and culture in Ireland and abroad via the missionary movements Patrick has global significance. St Patrick's day has gone global for better or for worse. He is also the father of Irish literature.The first Irishman with feelings too. Greatest politician of the 20th century was Sir James Craig. He was the only major figure who actually got all that he wanted. Canny and determined he got his own state and held onto it.Not a nice man but a sucessful one. Greatest Fenian prize goes to John Holland the father of the Submarine. In two world wars the u boat almost destroyed the might of the British Empire . Thats significant. Modern nuclear subs have unimaginable destructive potential. Greatest Irish woman is Kitty O Shea who changed Irish history. Greatest soldier Arthur Wellesley who as the Iron Duke defeated Napoleon the Great. If you defeat a colossus what are you? Not content with that he becomes the second Irish holder of the office of prime minister and emancipates the catholics of Britain and Ireland. He also gave his name to the Welly once a part of every rural man's footwear. More thoughts from 5 years ago. Stephen I have no problem regarding St Patrick as Irish despite his Roman- British birth. I was aware Parnell never became our first prime minister and that Home Rule wasn't enacted in his life time. I used the word "Had" to indicate what could have been.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 28, 2022 19:08:44 GMT
I am going to cheat and name several candidates in different categories though. I am trying to look at their impact and why they can be considered great. Maolsheachlann mentions St Patrick and in terms of religious impact and culture in Ireland and abroad via the missionary movements Patrick has global significance. St Patrick's day has gone global for better or for worse. He is also the father of Irish literature.The first Irishman with feelings too. Greatest politician of the 20th century was Sir James Craig. He was the only major figure who actually got all that he wanted. Canny and determined he got his own state and held onto it.Not a nice man but a sucessful one. Greatest Fenian prize goes to John Holland the father of the Submarine. In two world wars the u boat almost destroyed the might of the British Empire . Thats significant. Modern nuclear subs have unimaginable destructive potential. Greatest Irish woman is Kitty O Shea who changed Irish history. Greatest soldier Arthur Wellesley who as the Iron Duke defeated Napoleon the Great. If you defeat a colossus what are you? Not content with that he becomes the second Irish holder of the office of prime minister and emancipates the catholics of Britain and Ireland. He also gave his name to the Welly once a part of every rural man's footwear. I must admit I've never found Parnell particularly attractive, perhaps because his legend became a rallying-point for anti-clericism-- as can be seen in "Come Gather Round Me, Parnellites" by Yeats and the famous Christmas dinner scene in Portrait of the Artist by Joyce. But also because he seems to have been very narrowly political, unlike later nationalist leaders such as Pearse and De Valera who had a much broader spiritual and cultural outlook. More thoughts from 5 years ago. Stephen I have no problem regarding St Patrick as Irish despite his Roman- British birth. I was aware Parnell never became our first prime minister and that Home Rule wasn't enacted in his life time. I used the word "Had" to indicate what could have been.
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Post by Stephen on Apr 29, 2022 8:52:05 GMT
Ireland's Greatest Sportsman 1) Pádraig Harrington 2) Brian O'Driscoll 3) George Best 4) Barry McGuigan
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Post by cato on Apr 29, 2022 10:31:25 GMT
Ireland's Greatest Sportsman 1) Pádraig Harrington 2) Brian O'Driscoll 3) George Best 4) Barry McGuigan 1) Cu Chulainn 2)Finn Mac Cumhaill. 3) Katie Harrington
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Post by Séamus on Apr 30, 2022 8:31:46 GMT
Using a vomiting emoji would suggest you may have been upset. You could have queried my argument or point of view instead. That is the custom on this site. Kitty was English born but is as closely linked with Irish history as executed Republican martyrs like James Connolly and Erskine Childers. I never knew she was a prostitute or are you just indulging in casual misogyny ? Historical significance or greatness does not necessarily indicate virtue or someone we might admire as a role model. Napoleon or Julius Caesar were historically great but did many bad things. I was refering to her historical significance. Had Ireland achieved Home Rule with Parnell as prime minister we might live in a very different Ireland. The more stranger figures can obviously come to significance due to historical circumstances- Guinness World Records 2022 included the covid-inspired pandemic section with an entry and images of Mary Mallon, Typhoid Mary,the Irish woman who never digged distancing or testing.
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Post by Séamus on Apr 30, 2022 9:03:03 GMT
Edel Quinn would be a good candidate for greatest Irishwoman, in my view. Without taking from Quinn in the least,it happened this week that I came across the centenary edition of Maria Legionis which listed all the major envoys from Mary Duffy (1934 North America) to three people (Irish,American and Argentine)who engaged Eastern Europe in the post-Communism 1990s. While Edel Quinn and Alfie Lamb stand out the input by Irish ladies (in particular) and gentlemen is remarkable from Venezuela to Madagascar to Indonesia and so forth. A glimmer of 'vintage Europe' seeped into news stories this week...in a France known for secularism a still-daily mass going Sister of Charity becomes the world's oldest person, from a Dublin where nursing religious feel the need to retire from medicine a priest is chosen for an important curial post, in an era when female religious are often seen metaphorically knifing their clergy a French nun defends a priest from a knife attack, a traditional newsletter that I read this week giving an account of a young African martyr mentioned also the role of Irish priests Benedict's baptism and development- the minister of his baptism was present at his beatification. But obviously circumstances do and have changed and heroic Irish laity of the past like Veronica O'Brien, Ruby Dennison,Peter Norman, Seamus Grace, Edel, Alfie,etc who took on a role probably considered largely impossible for seculars at the time are worth remembering in our usually un-vintage times.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 30, 2022 11:48:06 GMT
Why has nobody mentioned Chris de Burgh?
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Post by cato on Apr 30, 2022 12:30:37 GMT
Why has nobody mentioned Chris de Burgh? Or Mary Robinson, Bob Geldoff and Bono?
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Post by Séamus on Jun 7, 2022 9:24:15 GMT
A few people around the world today celebrated the feast of St Anthony Maria Gianelli,who,as bishop of Bobbio,revitalised devotion to his diocesan founder St Columbanus,it seems eventually knocking him sideways as principal patron of the diocese in one of those historical ironies. Strangely, the clerical orders founded by both men were historically eclipsed by the stature of the founder himself;in Anthony's case,his oblates of St Alphonsus only surviving a short while,yet both have congregations bearing their mark today- Columbanus as patron of the Maynooth-founded society,in Gianelli's case being considered founder of a (apparently still veil-wearing) women's institute. Another reminder of how legendary the Irish monk has remained through the centuries.
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Post by Séamus on Jun 28, 2022 4:00:03 GMT
I only became aware of British SAS hero and foundation member (and sportsman) Blair Paddy Mayne when recently reading about a BBC series and a book review- actually about a critical biography of his rival which leaves the Down man as the real war hero ('david stirling the phoney major' Gavin Mortimer, review by author himself). Historically unappreciated he may have been,but not neglected by any means- there was an image one sculpture in the North featured. Actually I thought another news story about an Irish protestant held even more symbolic for our times...
"The chapel where the Bronte sisters were baptised and where their father Patrick preached has been hit by vandals. The 400year-old building pivotal to the lives of the siblings had stone copings and roof slates thrown to the ground and smashed last month while timber roof supports were pulled from their placements" international express june22
Like Shakespeare, Dickens and Joyce,the family have become a symbol of western literature and society. Being a family perhaps makes them more so. It's hard not to see an analogy in the stone and wood being torn apart. Rev Patrick was able to find repose from his grief by returning to Ireland; particularly in the light of major world leaders putting in their five euro cents about a court ruling which had little to do with them, it's doubtful whether there'll be any corners of the world to genuinely hide from troubles today.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 3, 2022 15:57:57 GMT
I only became aware of British SAS hero and foundation member (and sportsman) Blair Paddy Mayne when recently reading about a BBC series and a book review- actually about a critical biography of his rival which leaves the Down man as the real war hero ('david stirling the phoney major' Gavin Mortimer, review by author himself). Historically unappreciated he may have been,but not neglected by any means- there was an image one sculpture in the North featured. Actually I thought another news story about an Irish protestant held even more symbolic for our times... "The chapel where the Bronte sisters were baptised and where their father Patrick preached has been hit by vandals. The 400year-old building pivotal to the lives of the siblings had stone copings and roof slates thrown to the ground and smashed last month while timber roof supports were pulled from their placements" international express june22 Like Shakespeare, Dickens and Joyce,the family have become a symbol of western literature and society. Being a family perhaps makes them more so. It's hard not to see an analogy in the stone and wood being torn apart. Rev Patrick was able to find repose from his grief by returning to Ireland; particularly in the light of major world leaders putting in their five euro cents about a court ruling which had little to do with them, it's doubtful whether there'll be any corners of the world to genuinely hide from troubles today. Interesting. I am grateful to be informed about this. Thank you/ And thank you for something else, too. I see you are putting more white space/paragraph breaks in your recent posts—and this really HELPS my tired old eyes. I don't have a mobile and reading long blocks of text from a desktop computer isn't easy for me (also at least one other person at least lurking here, I know, who lamented to me privately about it.) Maybe if one is younger, raised on the internet with mobiles, it's not so bad. But old codger's like me really appreciate it and it increases my likelihood of deeply registering what people are saying. Which is why, for the internet (not for books) I always use loads of white space and paragraph breaks. : - )
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