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Post by Tomas on Aug 15, 2017 19:48:41 GMT
Being curious by nature I was wondering, is there any common Irish position, or any particular Conservative position, towards the history of India´s struggle - and achievement - of Independence?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 15, 2017 20:09:07 GMT
If it's anti-British, we tend to be for it!
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 15, 2017 20:10:18 GMT
Personally I don't like Gandhi much, though I respect his achievement.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 15, 2017 20:39:47 GMT
To be honest, I know very little about India, Indian history, or Indian culture. I'm not terribly drawn to it. Which is no reflection on the culture at all. As a nationalist, I am sympathetic to every country's desire for independence, so to that extent I would be all in favour of Indian Independence Day.
I don't think I've ever known an Indian person.
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Post by Tomas on Aug 15, 2017 20:40:34 GMT
You´re not the first one to say so about Gandhi. Maybe he wasn´t so popular as the popularised history tells us, and like the Richard Attenborough film (which I know didn´t earn total approval from you at the cinema!) would suggest, neither abroad nor in India?
When it comes to politics I suppose he was stubbornly radical, while conservative only in terms of his religion and culture.
The achievement could not have been made without strong support from the conservative Indians though, I guess.
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Post by Tomas on Aug 15, 2017 20:53:29 GMT
To be honest, I know very little about India, Indian history, or Indian culture. I'm not terribly drawn to it. Which is no reflection on the culture at all. As a nationalist, I am sympathetic to every country's desire for independence, so to that extent I would be all in favour of Indian Independence Day. I don't think I've ever known an Indian person. I posted the previous post almost simultaneously as yours quoted above here. The nationalism in India could perhaps have a place to be at least mentioned at this forum anyway. It seems there are some parallell movements in the general sense that the hindu nationalists, their equivalents to the extreme right or the Alt Right in the West, also emerged rather quickly within only a few years. Though in their politics the development came at least 10-20 years before it seems. That might be too difficult to try to discuss for me (I am not into political science at all but I like "common" history) but it´s a bit too much alike in the voting trends to be all different. Globalism is one factor of course, but maybe also the old problem of the "traditional parties" to loose ground.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 15, 2017 20:56:34 GMT
There was something inhuman about Gandhi-- George Orwell described it well.
OMG the Gandhi film is about the dullest movie I've ever seen in my life. It was only one of a string of Best Films in the eighties that nobody would want to watch twice. Driving Miss Daisy...The Last Emperor....zzzzzz.....
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Post by Tomas on Aug 15, 2017 21:07:10 GMT
Well, there was something inhuman in Mr Orwell too, or in his ideology more likely, if you ask me. Maybe there is something alien to us in the whole Hindu outlook that makes him look more inhuman for us, I don´t know if he really was so fanatical as to be considered such. Sleeping pills from the 80s would be good tonight! I would like a good night rest soon enough ;-)
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Post by Tomas on Aug 15, 2017 21:22:14 GMT
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Post by cato on Aug 15, 2017 21:25:23 GMT
India is the worlds biggest democracy and keeps an eye on China the last big communist dictatorship which are pluses.
I know westerners are only allowed to criticise their own societies,christianity and their own histories but what the heck ... I think India has a huge problem with the truly inhumane and wicked caste system which condemns millions to the direst poverty on religious grounds. The position of the untouchable class is particularly tragic. Hindu nationalists have persecuted and continue to persecute christians and other religious minorities and no one in the west seems to be bothered.
They have a dreadful record of sexual violence against women . There have been some revolting high profile gang rape and child rape cases recently. - During the infamous Savitar death case in Ireland the Indian government lectured us on our lack of abortion procedures. A bit rich really considering their own rather patchy record on human rights.
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Post by Tomas on Aug 15, 2017 21:41:41 GMT
Yes, it seems to be a different world altogether. The many cases of violence against women, and children, are among the worst things. It must be so disturbing for all people of good heart there too. My impression is that they have more difference between "high and low" levels of social welfare and justice, than most other countries. The situation for Christians should be a great concern for all men of good will. From what I´ve read many of the Christians are poor in the first place, and that might put them in an even worse threat than otherwise. Religious freedom must exists even there, so hopefully the strange attacks on Christians are somehow "terrible exceptions" rather than "business as usual" in outright persecution? Still, each person who suffers from evil attacks, whether Christian or non-Christian, is a sad loss that cast a shadow on the other perspectives.
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Post by Séamus on Aug 16, 2017 7:20:51 GMT
To be honest, I know very little about India, Indian history, or Indian culture. I'm not terribly drawn to it. Which is no reflection on the culture at all. As a nationalist, I am sympathetic to every country's desire for independence, so to that extent I would be all in favour of Indian Independence Day. I don't think I've ever known an Indian person. A lot of Anglo-Indians and Goan-Indians are extremely devout Catholics throughout the English-speaking world. The term "Anglo-Indian" is not always accurate-some have Irish blood. One family I know who have been supporters of the traditional Mass for four generations are named Meagher, the Christian name Alannah has been passed down from an ancestral matriarch * although, apparently Germans claim the name also* But a full-blooded cultural Catholic Indian is rare, a couple I've come across belong to the neocatechumenal way. Many Anglo-Indians were forced to move after independence, people have told me stories about their fathers being unable to find work in India because of their mixed background
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Post by kj on Aug 16, 2017 7:51:58 GMT
I have an Indian friend who tells me that there is a strong Anglophile element in the Indian media who laud the UK and sing the praises of English rule in India. Sounds familiar. I noticed the same phenomenon in Australia. I guess it's a structural thing in post-colonial countries.
My friend hates India. Says the overpopulation is something no westerner can even begin to imagine. Finding privacy is a nightmare - having a room of one's own unless extremely rich is a nigh-on impossibility.
Plus I know conservatives like the idea of family and parental loyalty, but according to him it is taken to absurd lengths in India. He is currently being pressured to marry a distant cousin he has absolutely no interest in. Whenever I tell him about Ireland he says it sounds like Paradise!
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Post by Séamus on Aug 29, 2017 6:09:55 GMT
I wonder whether the many people in the English-speaking world who are constantly pointing at the Catholic and other churches' abuse cover-ups have even reflected for a moment at the bizarre reaction, by many of his followers, following the conviction of guru RamRahimSingh in India ? No one justifies sex crimes or the justification of the same but Catholicism is obviously not always at the worst end of the spectrum either.
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Post by Tomas on Aug 29, 2017 9:47:01 GMT
I wonder whether the many people in the English-speaking world who are constantly pointing at the Catholic and other churches' abuse cover-ups have even reflected for a moment at the bizarre reaction, by many of his followers, following the conviction of guru RamRahimSingh in India ? No one justifies sex crimes or the justification of the same but Catholicism is obviously not always at the worst end of the spectrum either. Compared to bizarre sects and their leaders the Catholic tragedies seem not the worst evils. Still each single case is no less in itself than before.
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