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Post by Antaine on Sept 10, 2017 20:22:39 GMT
This has apparently been a topic of discussion somewhat recently, so this being Ireland I thought "Why not?"
What's the opinion of people here on fairies? I would have assumed practically nobody believed in them, but apparently I was wrong. I saw a Journal article on it recently, and a lot of people seemed to be saying things in favour of their existence (well, specifically fairy forts and trees). As far as I could tell, there was no sarcasm in what they said at all. Apparently belief in the little people is somewhat popular. I think it had something to do with people destroying these fairy forts/trees, and bad things happening to them.
So, what are the opinions of people here on the forum?
I don't believe in fairies myself, but I can understand the attraction to the idea. I consider myself a Romantic in the sense of goodly chivalrous knights, virtuous maidens, monarchy, fairies, good overcoming evil, etc, being very attractive concepts to me. I don't like these things because I think they're realistic, but because they're the exact opposite. The world we live in is rather miserable, and people are troubled (to say the least). Having something greater to aspire to is what makes life in any way good, in my view. The fact that we can never attain such perfection is an irrelevant reason for ignoring such Romantic ideals, as far as I'm concerned. Not that I'm advocating for ignoring common sense and realistic approaches.
So, uhh, anyway.... fairies?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 10, 2017 20:57:13 GMT
I completely agree with your sentiments, Antaine, and think they are very eloquently put.
I don't believe in fairies...at least, I only believe in them in the sense that I believe in Santa Claus. I don't believe they literally exist. But, like yourself, I'm a romantic and I cherish the idea of them. And I'm also glad to hear people believe still believe in them. That puts me in a bit of an awkward position. Am I wishing for people to have false beliefs? I've often found myself wondering this. I think the world is a more interesting place for containing people who believe in fairies, the Loch Ness monster, the continued existence of Elvis Presley, and the flat earth. However, some of those beliefs are certainly more noble and picturesque than others, and the belief in fairies is in this category.
I've heard stories, told as truth, about people who heard the bashee's wail. I don't think this was someone pulling my leg. I don't believe in banshees, either, but I like the fact that other people do.
I'm agnostic about ghosts.
I'm a believing Roman Catholic and, being so sceptical by temperament, it took me a long time and a lot of thought to accept the truth of Catholicism. Some of the miracles associated with it-- such as the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, the stories of Padre Pio, or the Shroud of Turin-- helped me accept that the supernatural could intervene in our reality. Besides, being such a sceptic, I found it impossible to hold onto my belief in the magical self-assembling, self-sustaining universe, and the spontaneous evolution of life. (I do believe in human evolution, but it seems such an insanely improbable occurrence that I can't believe it "just happened".)
But to get back to your main question. There are two quotations with which I identify, and which are relevant here. One is from Edward Burne-Jones, the Pre-Raphaelite painter: "The more materialistic science becomes, the more I shall paint angels." I do think that expresses something important. With society becoming ever more rationalistic, I think it's important that we keep our imaginations immersed in idealism, romance, the spiritual, the lofty, the mystical, the dream-like, and so on. Anyone can get on board with this whether they believe in the supernatural or not. If not, you can accept fairies, angels, and all that belongs to the realm of the supernatural as having a symbolic or experiential or mythic reality. (Are fairies supernatural? I won't split hairs about that.)
The other quotation is from C.S. Lewis, before his conversion: "Nearly all that I loved I believed to be imaginary; nearly all that I believed to be real I thought grim and meaningless." That is how I saw the world before I accepted the Catholic faith, and that outlook lingers with me now. So I am very receptive to fairies (and I'm not talking about the kind that congregate in George's Street in Dublin).
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Post by Séamus on Sept 11, 2017 3:57:48 GMT
I know an obsessively religious, but quite batty, woman from Mayo who claims to believe in fairies and leprechauns. She claimed they were spirits who refused to side with either St Michael or Lucifer in the primeval battle. She was probably a remnant of older times. Younger people however... It's probably like the recent past new age fads. People were using the pertinent saying (quoting either Chesterton or Lewis I think) that people losing Christian beliefs don't really behind atheists, they begin to believe everything. Ghosts are a different thing. We profess that there is an afterlife. A lot of church buildings, peopled by priests, religious, the devout, are professed by these people to be haunted
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Post by MourningIreland on Sept 11, 2017 13:46:49 GMT
I know an obsessively religious, but quite batty, woman from Mayo who claims to believe in fairies and leprechauns. She claimed they were spirits who refused to side with either St Michael or Lucifer in the primeval battle. She was probably a remnant of older times. Younger people however... It's probably like the recent past new age fads. People were using the pertinent saying (quoting either Chesterton or Lewis I think) that people losing Christian beliefs don't really behind atheists, they begin to believe everything. Ghosts are a different thing. We profess that there is an afterlife. A lot of church buildings, peopled by priests, religious, the devout, are professed by these people to be haunted This is fascinating. I do think all matters relating to the supernatural - including whimsical beings that reputedly possess magical powers - should be approached with caution.
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Post by cato on Sept 11, 2017 21:18:46 GMT
I have sympathy with the theory the fairies are a folk version of the Gaelic tales of the Tuatha De Danann mythological characters who were driven into the underworld.
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Post by cato on Sept 12, 2017 14:45:47 GMT
Maolsheachlann you are on your 998th post. You should mark your 1000th formally.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 12, 2017 14:49:41 GMT
Hmmmm....I'm very into symbolic moments, ceremony, and rites of passage. Excuse me if I don't respond to people while I'm figuring out what to do!!
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Post by servantofthechief on Sept 13, 2017 17:45:26 GMT
I would urge caution on the matter but I am not going to lie: I do not believe in Fairies... but they're there. I know I know, quoting the old joke about the Irishman's perspective on the matter but in truth it really does fit in with the traditional Irish Catholic view with regards to Fairies that goes all the way back to when we first became Christian, and we are not the only ones, culturally. The question of fairies and whether or not they exist was one that interested a great many Europeans throughout history, with many a discussion on wether or not they were spirits, or creatures, with some leaning more towards physical creatures, but not necessarily made out of the same 'stuff' as the rest of us, which would explain their strange abilities, its a rather esoteric issue in that regard. A good example of the attitude towards them can be seen in the wonderful animated film the Book of Kells. A young boy named Brendan (Who I think is not so unsubtle based on the real St. Brendan but cannot confirm) meets a fairy in the woods around Kells, who is supposedly the last of her kind. The boy, thoroughly spooked by the fairy's entrance and how she travels about the forest as if she were a part of it, recognises her for what she is immediately and without issue, though with a little bit of fear. The fae, called the very Irish and appropriate name, Aisling, explains her family was taken away from her by Crom Cruach, and ancient and malevolent pagan god of the Irish who St. Patrick very famously destroyed an icon of with a hammer who was more feared than loved, the fear is adequately represented by Aisling's terror of the creature. Brendan, very hilariously, dismisses the talk of Crom Cruach as 'old pagan nonsense', while talking to the real live fae he is walking beside.
Many outside the Irish context would see this as silly or hypocritical but in the old Irish view of things, it was natural. Believing in pagan gods was paganism, believing in Fairies was considered on the same vein as believing the world around you existed, they were part of the environment, a created thing under God's authority like everything else. Mysterious, dangerous, and about as malevolent or as benevolent as the average man or woman would be. But not gods. There are many old traditions regarding the fae, some of which I disapprove of, such as leaving offerings to them, and I absolutely loathe the new age 'Fairy worship', I have a cousin who is involved in that nonsense, even our pagan ancestors didn't so much worship the fae as much as they had to live with them in their mind, (except when they did, our Ancestors were confusing) they were never on the same level as their gods. But given how many agendas and how much confusion there is involved in ancient Celtic study, especially Irish history, myths and legends, people may be forgiven for mixing that up. But I am fine with a live and let live policy, they don't mess with my family and property and I will not mess with their forts and trees. Otherwise I'll just drench everything in Holy water.
I do not encourage irresponsibility regarding the issue, I am just of the mind that fairies are A) Not demons, and B) Not entirely nonsense and C) Not entirely safe to be trusted. It is why despite this textwall, I am not fully willing to say I 'believe' in fairies, because of the connotations of the word, but I more accept that they exist. And I am not of a mind to invite any into my life. There are weird things in this world, we must never lose our heads of course, but that is no reason to think their is no mystery left in this world that is not ours to know and own.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 13, 2017 19:20:17 GMT
I'm almost as pleased by the existence of someone who thinks fairies are real, or might be real, as I would be to have proof of their existence...
Certainly, I've heard people argue that messing around with fairy forts is a bad idea and has had bad consequences.
W.B. Yeats believed in them and he was a pretty smart guy.
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Post by Antaine on Sept 13, 2017 22:58:08 GMT
Of course, I probably should have said something about the belief in fairies possibly being a stepping stone into the occult for some people, or something like it. That's why I was curious as to what people here had to say. This would certainly be a great country all together if we had a few fairies and whatever else floating around.
I think servant's point about fairies being non-spirits but not being "made of the same stuff" sums up how I would see fairies (if I thought they existed). Of course, being Catholic, if I did somehow ever see a ghost or fairy, I would probably assume the worst and think that it's actually a demon trying to pass itself off as something else.
In regards to "offerings", I always assumed this was more to appease them so they wouldn't cause you trouble; as opposed to a form of worship.
On a more realistic and pessimistic note, I do have to wonder if some fairy tales were invented as mystical covers for something more sinister. For e.g., stories about changelings being used to cover up child abduction...
Sorry for the dark turn. Would bogeymen be considered fairies?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 14, 2017 9:24:29 GMT
Antaine has been suspended from the forum for demonizing fairies. A study by the Department of SJW Studies in the University of Toronto has found that attacks on fairies rise by an average of 23 per cent in the wake of anti-fairy rhetoric.
(Not really.)
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Post by Antaine on Nov 13, 2021 21:00:16 GMT
Recently I've been reading about Irish mythology, fairytales, and ghost stories. I'm not sure if the articles are written by one or several people, but it can't seem to decide whether fairies, Sidhe and Tuatha De Danann are one in the same, or if they are completely different things altogether. It seems to change with each tale, as does the power of the beings. I always wondered how the TDD could be so powerful yet lose to humans. Maybe they are not all one in the same. However, there was one story in particular that gave an interesting insight, about some invisible (possibly fairy) woman who wished to bring the son of a King with her to a place called Moy Mell, where Manannan Mac Tir (who I have seen described as King, or god, or Sidhe) ruled. The King keeps calling his druid when she arrives, and this is what is written near the end of the story:
Groaning, the maiden said, “Oh mighty King Conn, victor of a hundred battles, the druid's power is hated among us, and has no honour among the upright folk. When the Law comes, it will do away with his magic spells that come from the lips of a false black demon!”
Coran came up quickly then and heard the words of the sidhe [this is an article I read, so I'm not sure if the original source describes her as Sidhe, though it makes sense], and so he answered:
“All she says is true, my king, but I tell you that her folk fear no death for they died long ago! Beneath the Hill they dwell, for it is there they were buried, and dance their endless dances, never changing in joyless joy. Judgement will fall hardest upon those who defy the natural order of the world!”
So a story that seems to suggest Sidhe/fairies are some sort of dead people like spirits, only more physically attached to the world.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 13, 2021 23:51:50 GMT
Recently I've been reading about Irish mythology, fairytales, and ghost stories. I'm not sure if the articles are written by one or several people, but it can't seem to decide whether fairies, Sidhe and Tuatha De Danann are one in the same, or if they are completely different things altogether. It seems to change with each tale, as does the power of the beings. I always wondered how the TDD could be so powerful yet lose to humans. Maybe they are not all one in the same. However, there was one story in particular that gave an interesting insight, about some invisible (possibly fairy) woman who wished to bring the son of a King with her to a place called Moy Mell, where Manannan Mac Tir (who I have seen described as King, or god, or Sidhe) ruled. The King keeps calling his druid when she arrives, and this is what is written near the end of the story: Groaning, the maiden said, “Oh mighty King Conn, victor of a hundred battles, the druid's power is hated among us, and has no honour among the upright folk. When the Law comes, it will do away with his magic spells that come from the lips of a false black demon!”
Coran came up quickly then and heard the words of the sidhe [this is an article I read, so I'm not sure if the original source describes her as Sidhe, though it makes sense] , and so he answered:“All she says is true, my king, but I tell you that her folk fear no death for they died long ago! Beneath the Hill they dwell, for it is there they were buried, and dance their endless dances, never changing in joyless joy. Judgement will fall hardest upon those who defy the natural order of the world!”So a story that seems to suggest Sidhe/fairies are some sort of dead people like spirits, only more physically attached to the world. I've generally heard that they were supernatural beings who went underground, not gods or ghosts.
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Post by Séamus on Nov 14, 2021 2:47:41 GMT
Recently I've been reading about Irish mythology, fairytales, and ghost stories. I'm not sure if the articles are written by one or several people, but it can't seem to decide whether fairies, Sidhe and Tuatha De Danann are one in the same, or if they are completely different things altogether. It seems to change with each tale, as does the power of the beings. I always wondered how the TDD could be so powerful yet lose to humans. Maybe they are not all one in the same. However, there was one story in particular that gave an interesting insight, about some invisible (possibly fairy) woman who wished to bring the son of a King with her to a place called Moy Mell, where Manannan Mac Tir (who I have seen described as King, or god, or Sidhe) ruled. The King keeps calling his druid when she arrives, and this is what is written near the end of the story: Groaning, the maiden said, “Oh mighty King Conn, victor of a hundred battles, the druid's power is hated among us, and has no honour among the upright folk. When the Law comes, it will do away with his magic spells that come from the lips of a false black demon!”
Coran came up quickly then and heard the words of the sidhe [this is an article I read, so I'm not sure if the original source describes her as Sidhe, though it makes sense] , and so he answered:“All she says is true, my king, but I tell you that her folk fear no death for they died long ago! Beneath the Hill they dwell, for it is there they were buried, and dance their endless dances, never changing in joyless joy. Judgement will fall hardest upon those who defy the natural order of the world!”So a story that seems to suggest Sidhe/fairies are some sort of dead people like spirits, only more physically attached to the world. I've generally heard that they were supernatural beings who went underground, not gods or ghosts. A lady from the West once mentioned that there was a legend there that both fairies and leprechauns were pure spirits that refused to side either with St Michael or Lucifer at the primeval battle and received a lesser punishment than the condemned angels- to become embodied in their present form. Theologically unviable I guess.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 14, 2021 10:35:36 GMT
Recently I've been reading about Irish mythology, fairytales, and ghost stories. I'm not sure if the articles are written by one or several people, but it can't seem to decide whether fairies, Sidhe and Tuatha De Danann are one in the same, or if they are completely different things altogether. It seems to change with each tale, as does the power of the beings. I always wondered how the TDD could be so powerful yet lose to humans. Maybe they are not all one in the same. However, there was one story in particular that gave an interesting insight, about some invisible (possibly fairy) woman who wished to bring the son of a King with her to a place called Moy Mell, where Manannan Mac Tir (who I have seen described as King, or god, or Sidhe) ruled. The King keeps calling his druid when she arrives, and this is what is written near the end of the story: Groaning, the maiden said, “Oh mighty King Conn, victor of a hundred battles, the druid's power is hated among us, and has no honour among the upright folk. When the Law comes, it will do away with his magic spells that come from the lips of a false black demon!”
Coran came up quickly then and heard the words of the sidhe [this is an article I read, so I'm not sure if the original source describes her as Sidhe, though it makes sense] , and so he answered:“All she says is true, my king, but I tell you that her folk fear no death for they died long ago! Beneath the Hill they dwell, for it is there they were buried, and dance their endless dances, never changing in joyless joy. Judgement will fall hardest upon those who defy the natural order of the world!”So a story that seems to suggest Sidhe/fairies are some sort of dead people like spirits, only more physically attached to the world. Good on you for reading about Irish mythology and folklore. I keep meaning to but haven't really got round to it.
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