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Post by cato on Oct 14, 2017 12:48:29 GMT
Jean Luc Melenchon the far leftist leader of France unbowed has labelled the EU flag as a "sectarian symbol" . He demanded it be removed from the National Assembly saying " Do we have to put up with that ? It's the French Republic here. Not the Virgin Mary".
The designer of the flag , Arsene Heitz was inspired by the miraculous medal and the passage from the book of Revelation about the woman clothed in the sun and with the sun and moon (Islam?) under her feet and on her head a 12 starred crown.
The outburst shows the deep anti catholicism that still exists in France. I wonder will the Irish left follow this radical secular line?
I have mixed views on the flag which is a striking visual image. I covered it up on my car number plate with a tricolour sticker when it first appeared but was told this would cause me to fail my NCT! I was tempted to become a marytr for the tricolour but alas gave in .
Similarly I resent the hijacking of Beethoven's Ode to Joy by the EU. Perhaps they could replace it with Chopin's Death March ?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 30, 2017 11:12:08 GMT
Cato, I agree with you. Aesthetically, I really like the EU flag-- it's very simple, decorative, and has nice colours. I would burn it, obviously, but with a pang of regret.
On the other hand, I've never liked our national flag-- tricolours are so boring, and redolent of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution. But it's our flag so that's that-- I wouldn't be in favour of changing it. I wish we had gone with the harp instead.
My favourite national flags are those of Canada, Israel, Japan and the USA.
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Post by tomás laserian on Oct 30, 2017 12:01:20 GMT
Cato, I agree with you. Aesthetically, I really like the EU flag-- it's very simple, decorative, and has nice colours. I would burn it, obviously, but with a pang of regret. On the other hand, I've never liked our national flag-- tricolours are so boring, and redolent of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution. But it's our flag so that's that-- I wouldn't be in favour of changing it. I wish we had gone with the harp instead. My favourite national flags are those of Canada, Israel, Japan and the USA. when something becomes ingrained enough it's hard to see out being any other way. Ireland will always equal green, it matters little if Ireland equalled blue once upon a time. someone mentioned once that hospitals originally marked baby boys with pink tags ,girls with blue. soft blue seemed feminine while pink was considered a type of red which was masculine. no one could buy that now (I'm not speaking of social engineers) |
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Post by cato on Nov 2, 2017 20:40:51 GMT
The cabbages who run Dublin city Council have decided to fly the Catalan flag all November to basically make themselves look alternative and radical. This is the same council that bravely flew the Palestinian flag for a month earlier this year. Some student union type who can't be bothered actually doing something to clean up a city that looks like a 1916 battle field peopled with heroin addicts begging at every street corner , have proposed this profound gesture.
No it's much easier to strike a vacuous left wing rebel pose than actually do their bloody job.
Wait for them with bated breath to fly the Tibetan flag to challenge Chinese imperialism and cultural genocide or the Kurdish flag to support the cause of those who were the first to fight the Isis scumbags butchering defenceless minorities. Hell will freeze over first.
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Post by Young Ireland on Nov 2, 2017 20:43:46 GMT
The cabbages who run Dublin city Council have decided to fly the Catalan flag all November to basically make themselves look alternative and radical. This is the same council that bravely flew the Palestinian flag for a month earlier this year. Some student union type who can't be bothered actually doing something to clean up a city that looks like a 1916 battle field peopled with heroin addicts begging at every street corner. No it's much easier to strike a vacuous left wing rebel pose than do their bloody job. Wait for them with bated breath to fly the Tibetan flag to challenge Chinese imperialism and cultural genocide or the Kurdish flag to support the cause of those who were the first to fight the Isis scumbags butchering defenceless minorities. Hell will freeze over first. Just to clarify, in case anyone thought that this is my position, I am very much in favour of Tibetan and Kurdish indepedence as much as I am of that of Catalonia and Scotland, in fact even more so. My position is that every nation has the right to self-determination. |
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Post by cato on Nov 2, 2017 22:09:27 GMT
The cabbages who run Dublin city Council have decided to fly the Catalan flag all November to basically make themselves look alternative and radical. This is the same council that bravely flew the Palestinian flag for a month earlier this year. Some student union type who can't be bothered actually doing something to clean up a city that looks like a 1916 battle field peopled with heroin addicts begging at every street corner. No it's much easier to strike a vacuous left wing rebel pose than do their bloody job. Wait for them with bated breath to fly the Tibetan flag to challenge Chinese imperialism and cultural genocide or the Kurdish flag to support the cause of those who were the first to fight the Isis scumbags butchering defenceless minorities. Hell will freeze over first. Just to clarify, in case anyone thought that this is my position, I am very much in favour of Tibetan and Kurdish indepedence as much as I am of that of Catalonia and Scotland, in fact even more so. My position is that every nation has the right to self-determination. I wonder where we draw the line at national self determination? Do the American Indians or the Maoris have the right to their own states? What annoys me about Scottish and Catalan nationalism is that it is pointless. Motivated by resentment of their current "oppressor" they want to exercise independence by promptly joining the EU which is formally pledged to ever closer union. ie even less independence! That type of nationalism is essentially a vanity project. The Kurdish/Tibetans are in a different league where they face actual physical oppression , torture imprisonment and real active tyranny. Those who get so exercised over Israeli human rights abuses are also often blinded to much harsher and bloodier regimes particularly but not exclusively in the Arab world. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 2, 2017 22:41:45 GMT
Just to clarify, in case anyone thought that this is my position, I am very much in favour of Tibetan and Kurdish indepedence as much as I am of that of Catalonia and Scotland, in fact even more so. My position is that every nation has the right to self-determination. I wonder where we draw the line at national self determination? Do the American Indians or the Maoris have the right to their own states? What annoys me about Scottish and Catalan nationalism is that it is pointless. Motivated by resentment of their current "oppressor" they want to exercise independence by promptly joining the EU which is formally pledged to ever closer union. ie even less independence! That type of nationalism is essentially a vanity project. The Kurdish/Tibetans are in a different league where they face actual physical oppression , torture imprisonment and real active tyranny. Those who get so exercised over Israeli human rights abuses are also often blinded to much harsher and bloodier regimes particularly but not exclusively in the Arab world. The only nationalism I even care about is full-blown, nineteenth century romantic nationalism. Anything less seems trivial to me-- not worth even getting out of bed for. Just globalism with a different colour flag. I honestly wonder why Sinn Féin even bother. What is the point of "Brits Out" if we just become another pocket of cosmopolitanism anyway? And the Catalan independence movement seems cut from the same fabric. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 2, 2017 22:45:27 GMT
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Post by Young Ireland on Nov 3, 2017 7:08:20 GMT
I wonder where we draw the line at national self determination? Do the American Indians or the Maoris have the right to their own states? What annoys me about Scottish and Catalan nationalism is that it is pointless. Motivated by resentment of their current "oppressor" they want to exercise independence by promptly joining the EU which is formally pledged to ever closer union. ie even less independence! That type of nationalism is essentially a vanity project. The Kurdish/Tibetans are in a different league where they face actual physical oppression , torture imprisonment and real active tyranny. Those who get so exercised over Israeli human rights abuses are also often blinded to much harsher and bloodier regimes particularly but not exclusively in the Arab world. The only nationalism I even care about is full-blown, nineteenth century romantic nationalism. Anything less seems trivial to me-- not worth even getting out of bed for. Just globalism with a different colour flag. I honestly wonder why Sinn Féin even bother. What is the point of "Brits Out" if we just become another pocket of cosmopolitanism anyway? And the Catalan independence movement seems cut from the same fabric. That would be the same nationalism that contributed to (not caused) two devastating world wars. Given that baggage, I think its better to let sleeping dogs lie. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 3, 2017 7:25:02 GMT
Well, point me to the pre-nationalist golden age where countries and kingdoms and realms weren't fighting each other constantly, and I might agree. History is one long chronicle of war and they didn't need romantic nationalism to motivate them for the vast majority of that time. After all, we are constantly being lectured that nationalism began in the nineteenth century...
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