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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 19, 2018 13:11:50 GMT
Last year I spent a lot of time watching Alt Right videos. I don't agree with their racialism or their anti-semitism, but I appreciated their total opposition to political correctness, and their determination not only to resist it but to roll it back. (Their racialism and anti-semitism makes the movement irredeemable, however.)
One theme that really preoccupies the Alt Right is the imminent collapse of Western society. They seem to predict a complete breakdown of law and order, out of which a new society will arise. Indeed, many of them seem enthusiastic about the idea.
I think there may have been a thread about this in the early days of this forum, but I'm too lazy to look.
How do you view this idea of imminent social collapse? Do you think it's inevitable? Do you think it's plausible? Do you think it's desirable?
I don't think it's AT ALL desirable, considering the social costs it would have. Being temperamentally conservative I'm always in favour of gradual change rather than crisis or revolution.
However, sometimes I wonder how political correctness can possibly be undone now, considering just how deeply it's embedded in our society. Once something like gay marriage or abortion or transexualism is an accepted fact of life, how can it be reversed?
(I don't really believe that imminent collapse is likely, either. The Alt Right assumption seems to be that burgeoning Islam and multiculturalism will lead to social chaos. I think it's guaranteed that they will exacerbate tensions, but I see no reason to assume they will lead to social collapse. America has been multicultural for a long time and it hasn't collapsed.)
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Post by kj on Jan 20, 2018 5:25:46 GMT
I think many conservatives underestimate the power of the concept of "the new normal". Acquaintances of mine in their 20s accept gay marriage, the virtues of multi-culturalism, 'anti-nativism', anti-religion, globalism etc as perfectly normal and nothing unusual. That's their world.
In western europe I think malcontents will cling more tightly to things like Traditional Catholicism, Monarchism etc.
I've never been to eastern europe so can't comment on there.
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Post by ClassicalRepublican on Jan 22, 2018 11:37:50 GMT
I think there are a few converging collapse theories they mish mash together such as non-White births dropping below 50% in the United States recently and book The Fourth Turning which seems to be a bit mystical in its predictions as was Marx. Republican philosophy however, teaches us about the anacyclosis. At a glance this also looks like ancient mysticism, but it is actually a coherent theory of political science from an earlier age. It describes government decaying and being redeemed in a cycle, best articulated in ancient times by Polybius. The task for man, if he is wise, is to bend the cycle into a triangle with the stable forms of government - kingship, aristocracy and democracy - at each corner, and their unstable, decayed forms - tyranny, oligarchy and the mob - tightly bound inside the triangle. A government formed from aspects of all three stable forms we call the mixed constitution. Here is a modern retake on the anacyclosis which appears to describe the contemporary United States as having recently passed from its point 7 to point 8. It would appear to predict the next step to be collapse into Hobbes's state of nature, but I cannot gather from this website which forms of government redeem 'demagarchy' and to which it further decays if not 'chiefdom' www.anacyclosis.org/content/thecycle/ |
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Post by cato on Jan 22, 2018 20:08:52 GMT
I am sceptical of theories of collapse having heard numerous examples that were predicted come and go during my 50 odd years on earth. The world is traditionally vulnerable to war and disease. In Europe thanks to the USA and antibiotics we have held those two beasts at bay since the 1940s.
Demographically culturally and spiritually however we are in serious decline. Whether that leads to anarchy in the streets is debatable. The Swedish Army chief has predicted they will be sucked into a third world war involving internal and external threats in the near future.So it is possible we will see social unrest and violence.
The idea the alt right will provide a solution to all of this is highly dubious imho.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 22, 2018 20:24:15 GMT
I don't think the Alt Right will be a solution or even the beneficiaries of any collapse, or even social unrest. But something LIKE the Alt Right, and perhaps owing something to them, might be.
Of course, I hope it will be the Catholic Church that rebuilds society, whether the collapse is material or spiritual or both.
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Post by cato on Jan 22, 2018 20:52:30 GMT
I don't think the Alt Right will be a solution or even the beneficiaries of any collapse, or even social unrest. But something LIKE the Alt Right, and perhaps owing something to them, might be. Of course, I hope it will be the Catholic Church that rebuilds society, whether the collapse is material or spiritual or both. I am not too sure the European Alt Right are that much of a political force outside of the blogosphere. Where they have made gains in the West they tend to be the old far right parties under new branding. They still have their old core support much of it pretty unsavory but attract new voters disillusioned with mainstream politics mass emigration etc. In Eastern Europe ( Poland Austria and Hungary)I think Nationalism tends to vividly remember right and left wing totalitarianism and resists its modern incarnation in the EU. I suspect they are more patriotic than alt right but I do believe there are anti semitic and pro Axis elements among the movements there too. |
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Post by assisi on Jan 22, 2018 22:25:14 GMT
Has there ever been a time in history where the 'powers that be' legitimised personal fiction or fantasy within their societies? Have we crossed a new line when someone can unilaterally change their sex at will and be validated by laws? If that sets a precedent could anyone then argue for the capacity to change their race at will? Or change to an animal - whatever they imagine themselves to be?
Surely once a law permits every person the potential to re-invent their physical identity at will, and punish those who do not play along with the new identities, then a line has been crossed between reality and fantasy that really will make society unworkable and nonsensical?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 23, 2018 0:03:53 GMT
I'm not sure. Of course I agree it's madcap fantasty, but the amount of "transexuals" is probably only ever going to be tiny, so I don't know how much of an effect it will have.
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Post by kj on Jan 23, 2018 0:50:10 GMT
Maybe the key question is how much do internet wars/social media/blog storms influence reality. I have yet to see any study that properly address this.
In the few times over the past number of years when I've taken a complete break from online activity it's felt like a veil has lifted from my mind. All the online wars seem like so much faff and perhaps nothing more than a symptom of existential boredom.
*But* the one issue that is undeniably real in Ireland and that can be verified almost anywhere now is the changing demographic and that will be the real determiner of the future.
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Post by cato on Jan 27, 2018 15:25:48 GMT
I was very surprised we didn't see an extreme swing to the left after the economic crash. I mistakenly thought we would see a resumption of left wing 1970s style anti capitalist terror attacks. We often forget how the IRA explicitly in the 1970s targeted businessmen and buildings as part of a class war. Had the real IRA or a splinter group decided to attack a disgraced banker then they would have had a fair ammount of sympathy if not support. The absence of a hostile communist state formenting violent revolution in the West made a difference. Now the Russians manipulate politics.
Anyways the left predicted a big crisis and seem to have blown it , for now. But Comrade Corbyn is in the wings....
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angelo
Junior Member
Posts: 67 
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Post by angelo on Feb 4, 2018 9:21:54 GMT
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Feb 5, 2018 20:14:31 GMT
Thanks for that, Angelo. I've listened to most of it. It's pitched at a pretty high conceptual level, and hard to follow when you're doing stuff (which I was), but it's terribly interesting.
The Distributist is arguing for the concept of CULTURE rather than race. I would agree with him here. I wonder how well he represents other distributists?
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