|
|
Post by cato on Jul 3, 2018 11:32:21 GMT
The new secularist left wing Spanish government plan to exhume the body of General Franco from his impressive resting place in the Valley of the fallen outside Madrid and presumably rebury him in a spot more suitable for modern leftist ideologues. They plan to do this before the end of July. His family are opposed but as families are all modern constructs and they are right wingers who gives a heck about their feelings?
Spain has serious economic and social problems but reburying a dead dictator is obviously a top priority. Leftists have a weakness for student politics style gimmicks like organising boycott Israel events and flying Catalan /Palestinian flags over City hall in Dublin.
Wait until we hear demands for the reburial of church figures like Archbishop mc Quaid or Cardinal Connell or perhaps the removal of nuns headstones. Sounds unlikely but scapegoating all things traditional and catholic is a core leftist liberal belief. If they feel it is of advantage to them then they will demand it.
Fine Gael founder General Eoin O Duffy was also a key leader of the Blueshirt movement which was very popular in 1930s Ireland and which raised large sums of money and hundreds of volunteers to fight in Spain for Franco. Many more Irishmen fought for Franco than on the Republican side , a little detail the Irish left tend to gloss over.
I wonder will Leo Varadkar who has recently apologised for all convictions of Gay men apologise for his party's strong links with real facists or at least people who dressed like facists and hung around with real ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 3, 2018 11:38:53 GMT
I tend to avoid Franco debates because I have never been able to get a fix on his regime-- reactions to him range from painting him as the epitome of evil, on the socialist left, to some right-wing Catholics viewing him as a saint, sometimes literally. Whatever your view of him, it's grotesque to move him from his resting place. I'm of the view that history should be respected for what it is rather than constantly purged. I read a book about the Irish who fought for Franco. My understanding is that they didn't exactly distinguish themselves! |
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 3, 2018 11:56:34 GMT
I tend to avoid Franco debates because I have never been able to get a fix on his regime-- reactions to him range from painting him as the epitome of evil, on the socialist left, to some right-wing Catholics viewing him as a saint, sometimes literally. Whatever your view of him, it's grotesque to move him from his resting place. I'm of the view that history should be respected for what it is rather than constantly purged. I read a book about the Irish who fought for Franco. My understanding is that they didn't exactly distinguish themselves! No the Irish Legion didn't cover themselves in glory but it almost seems to be an essiential part of Irish military history that you are on the losing side. In that regard they followed a long tradition. I have reservations about Franco but he is not in the Hitler/ Lenin/Stalin/Mao league of butchers. He did though execute tens of thousands of his enemies and was a pretty ruthless unforgiving type . I agree with your point that people should be left buried where they are. Moving him is a nasty vindictive act. Rewriting history either by tearing down 19th century statues or reburying long dead tyrants is more about indulging present day egotism than undoing the pain and injustice of the past. It is much more respectful of the past not to sanitise it , not to change it and not to wave a magic feel good wand of apology over the traumas of events we didn't experience or carry out. Some of the modern apology mania is in reality virtue signalling arrogance. |
|
|
|
Post by assisi on Jul 3, 2018 13:04:38 GMT
Virtue signalling and arrogance of gargantuan proportions. It also is a substitute for real political action on jobs and prosperity. A diversion.
I would suspect that there would be strong opposition to this.
|
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 3, 2018 13:47:50 GMT
Virtue signalling and arrogance of gargantuan proportions. It also is a substitute for real political action on jobs and prosperity. A diversion. I would suspect that there would be strong opposition to this. Hopefully. |
|
|
|
Post by Stephen on Jul 3, 2018 14:19:52 GMT
VIVA FRANCO! VIVA ESPAÑA!
|
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 3, 2018 14:33:31 GMT
VIVA FRANCO! VIVA ESPAÑA! Do we have any rules around outrageous naughtiness?🤔 In the real world this would probably merit a prison sentence. |
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 3, 2018 14:55:44 GMT
VIVA FRANCO! VIVA ESPAÑA! Stephen is a protected species.  |
|
|
|
Post by Tomas on Jul 3, 2018 19:57:46 GMT
Spain being the most conservative nation of the entire 20th century Europe is also a most interesting area to [ ---- ---- ---- ] self censoring etc [---- ---- ]
|
|
|
|
Post by cato on Jul 3, 2018 20:11:39 GMT
I think we in Ireland up until the 1990s have that had that badge of honourTomas. Ireland was a democratic and conservative country unlike Spain , although the cheer leaders for the new tolerant Ireland like to portray us as enslaved by De Valera the Pope and the nuns.
|
|
|
|
Post by cato on Aug 29, 2018 10:55:42 GMT
The Spanish government seem to be intending to exhume Franco by the end of the year and handing his remains back to his family. I have seen conflicting reports as to whether the family object or will cooperate. A bit like most families I guess.
Franco himself didn't want to be buried in the Valley of the Fallen. It will be strange showing tourists an empty tomb in the future.
Sometimes it is best to leave things as they are , imperfect as they are as a reminder of the tragedies of history. Somebody somewhere will have an objection to the burial spot of some famous or infamous character, especially in this hyper sensitive age.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 29, 2018 11:01:11 GMT
Apparently the sculptor of the O'Connell monument, and the Burke, Goldsmith, and Grattan monuments outside Trinity College, had several of his works toppled after independence: Following the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922, a number of Foley's works were removed, or destroyed without notice, because the persons portrayed were considered hostile to the process of Irish independence. They included those of Lord Carlisle, Lord Dunkellin (in Galway) and Field Marshal Gough in the Phoenix Park.[8] The statue of Lord Dunkellin was decapitated and dumped in the river as one of the first acts of the short-lived "Galway Soviet" of 1922.And we all know about Nelson's Pillar. I think this kind of thing is always stupid. Look at the ridiculous needle we got instead. |
|
|
|
Post by Séamus on Aug 29, 2018 11:43:59 GMT
Apparently the sculptor of the O'Connell monument, and the Burke, Goldsmith, and Grattan monuments outside Trinity College, had several of his works toppled after independence: Following the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922, a number of Foley's works were removed, or destroyed without notice, because the persons portrayed were considered hostile to the process of Irish independence....etc....i]
And we all know about Nelson's Pillar. I think this kind of thing is always stupid. Look at the ridiculous needle we got instead.How the Irish might feel about anti-independence figures is probably a bit less brutal though. All the same, they were able to remove Dublin's main Queen Victoria to Sydney without too much damage, showing that it can be done. My father has sometimes sung a satirical tune (mostly to himself) about this. One bit goes something like "...when Nelson heard the story, he shouted to Parnell, (a line in between I can't remember) I don't feel safe upon this seat,I may retreat, like Gough's immortal statute..." |
|
|
|
Post by Stephen on Aug 29, 2018 19:30:43 GMT
It's very sad to see... I have ordered a book called the last crusade about Franco and the civil war.
|
|
|
|
Post by cato on Aug 29, 2018 20:49:57 GMT
Apparently the sculptor of the O'Connell monument, and the Burke, Goldsmith, and Grattan monuments outside Trinity College, had several of his works toppled after independence: Following the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922, a number of Foley's works were removed, or destroyed without notice, because the persons portrayed were considered hostile to the process of Irish independence. They included those of Lord Carlisle, Lord Dunkellin (in Galway) and Field Marshal Gough in the Phoenix Park.[8] The statue of Lord Dunkellin was decapitated and dumped in the river as one of the first acts of the short-lived "Galway Soviet" of 1922.And we all know about Nelson's Pillar. I think this kind of thing is always stupid. Look at the ridiculous needle we got instead. Did we have a Galway soviet? I thought Limerick had that sole distincion. |
|
