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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 29, 2018 21:11:17 GMT
Apparently the sculptor of the O'Connell monument, and the Burke, Goldsmith, and Grattan monuments outside Trinity College, had several of his works toppled after independence: Following the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922, a number of Foley's works were removed, or destroyed without notice, because the persons portrayed were considered hostile to the process of Irish independence. They included those of Lord Carlisle, Lord Dunkellin (in Galway) and Field Marshal Gough in the Phoenix Park.[8] The statue of Lord Dunkellin was decapitated and dumped in the river as one of the first acts of the short-lived "Galway Soviet" of 1922.And we all know about Nelson's Pillar. I think this kind of thing is always stupid. Look at the ridiculous needle we got instead. Did we have a Galway soviet? I thought Limerick had that sole distincion. I'd never heard of it, but apparently pulling down statues was the limit of its activities. www.politics.ie/forum/history/219163-galway-soviet-1922-a.htmlI think the Army Comrades Association could have stayed at home after all!
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Post by cato on Aug 29, 2018 22:06:21 GMT
I only learned today that Queen Victoria's statue lasted outside Leinster house until 1948 when she was moved into storage to the Royal Hospital Kilmainham. The space was replaced by a car park! A Fine Gael led government sent her to Australia in 1986 as a good will gesture on a long term loan. It is still the property of the Irish state presumably.
The then finance minister John Bruton objected to shipping Victoria out as the statue displayed Irish craftmanship of the early 20th century. Or at least that was the public reason he gave. Bruton was often criticised as John Unionist for his perceived leanings towards Britain and unionism.
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Post by cato on Sept 12, 2019 11:37:40 GMT
The Caudillo is still in his grave in the valley of the fallen. His family continue to campaign against the government's decision and no reinternment will happen until all legal recourse is exhausted.
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Post by cato on Sept 24, 2019 21:24:30 GMT
It was a busy day for courts today. Spanish courts dismissed the objections of Franco's relations and he will now be removed from the Valley of the fallen and be reburied in a more modest graveyard where his wife was laid to rest.
Socialists seem to think this will benefit them at a general election due in October. I wonder why Margaret Thatcher never dug up the remains of Karl Marx and sent them to the Soviet bloc? Perhaps there are more important things in life than moving corpses for cheap electoral point scoring.
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Post by Stephen on Sept 25, 2019 13:03:24 GMT
It was a busy day for courts today. Spanish courts dismissed the objections of Franco's relations and he will now be removed from the Valley of the fallen and be reburied in a more modest graveyard where his wife was laid to rest. Socialists seem to think this will benefit them at a general election due in October. I wonder why Margaret Thatcher never dug up the remains of Karl Marx and sent them to the Soviet bloc? Perhaps there are more important things in life than moving corpses for cheap electoral point scoring. This is an absolute disgrace.
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Post by Tomas on Sept 25, 2019 13:16:51 GMT
Socialists seem to think this will benefit them at a general election due in October. I wonder why Margaret Thatcher never dug up the remains of Karl Marx and sent them to the Soviet bloc? Perhaps there are more important things in life than moving corpses for cheap electoral point scoring. Far too many corpses to move if they should put some of the many million Socialists up to responsability. No time left for collaborative preparing of new repeats of the perpetual peace-climate-migration-mantras if 9 out of 10 of all Liberal-Left supporters would be busy digging up friends/foes.
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Post by cato on Oct 21, 2019 17:51:47 GMT
Franco's remains are due to be removed on Thursday coming.
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Post by cato on Oct 25, 2019 13:10:42 GMT
The burial of General Franco was carried out live on Spanish TV yesterday. The public was kept away and the low key ceremony was and simple and dignified. The socialist government in a petty gesture prevented the Spanish flag being draped on the coffin.
In a bizarre twist the left had a melt down on social claiming the ceremonies amounted to a second state funeral! Police and soldiers were also criticised for saluting Franco's grandson. Perhaps all this could have been avoided by leaving things as they were. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that.The old dictator's ghost must have chuckled at annoying his enemies once again. Some of them no doubt would have wished for the corpse to be desecrated as was common practice with the bodies of nuns and clergy during the civil war .
Franco was then reburied with his wife in a cemetery north of Madrid. It was a little strange they were separated in death but that anomaly is now over.
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Post by cato on Feb 24, 2024 11:56:48 GMT
I recently read a biography of Franco by Stanley Payne and Jesus Palacios which I really enjoyed and would strongly recommend.
Payne is an American academic and a recognised expert in international Fascism. I was quite surprised by the sympathetic line the writers adopt towards their subject.
A few little things I learned. The Caudillo rarely drank alcohol and only drank decaffeinated coffee. ( This is shocking. I didn't realise decaff was a thing in the 1950s) On doctor's orders he lost weight in his 40s and 50s and looked much better which is comforting to middle aged conservative types everywhere.
He wasn't a fascist, didn't join the coup that led to war until the last moment and spent compatively little on the Spanish military as dictator. He refused to help bail out Portugal with military support when there was a leftist military coup in the 1970s and he squashed a secret Spanish project to build nuclear weapons.
The authors see him as a right wing culture warrior who hoped to lead an international Catholic crusade against Marxism and western materialism only to be thwarted by Vatican iis tilt towards dialogue with progressive and democratic movements.
Paul Preston wrote a mighty hostile tome for the prosecution a few decades ago. This is the defence case. This is a very enjoyable engaging biography of one of Europe's last Catholic authoritarian rulers.
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Post by Tomas on Feb 26, 2024 14:12:13 GMT
I recently read a biography of Franco by Stanley Payne and Jesus Palacios which I really enjoyed and would strongly recommend. Payne is an American academic and a recognised expert in international Fascism. I was quite surprised by the sympathetic line the writers adopt towards their subject. A few little things I learned. The Caudillo rarely drank alcohol and only drank decaffeinated coffee. ( This is shocking. I didn't realise decaff was a thing in the 1950s) On doctor's orders he lost weight in his 40s and 50s and looked much better which is comforting to middle aged conservative types everywhere. He wasn't a fascist, didn't join the coup that led to war until the last moment and spent compatively little on the Spanish military as dictator. He refused to help bail out Portugal with military support when there was a leftist military coup in the 1970s and he squashed a secret Spanish project to build nuclear weapons. The authors see him as a right wing culture warrior who hoped to lead an international Catholic crusade against Marxism and western materialism only to be thwarted by Vatican iis tilt towards dialogue with progressive and democratic movements. Paul Preston wrote a mighty hostile tome for the prosecution a few decades ago. This is the defence case. This is a very enjoyable engaging biography of one of Europe's last Catholic authoritarian rulers. This particular biography/history has been on my to read list for several years after personal recommendation from a Spaniard prelate. It has some 800 pages or so but serves surely as a must read on this great man and disturbing topic. Civil war and its aftermatch is full of troubles and the thwarting by modernist Vatican is no promising ending for sure.
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Post by cato on Feb 26, 2024 19:25:43 GMT
Despite its length its a remarkablely easy enjoyable read Tomas.
He had a terribly difficult painful death with surgeons doing all they could to keep him alive even when all realistic chance of recovery had vanished.
Despite his anticommunism (sending the Blue Division to join the Nazi invasion of Russia) he turned down American requests to send Spanish troops to Vietnam in the 1960s.
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Post by Tomas on Feb 27, 2024 8:32:44 GMT
Despite its length its a remarkablely easy enjoyable read Tomas. He had a terribly difficult painful death with surgeons doing all they could to keep him alive even when all realistic chance of recovery had vanished. Despite his anticommunism (sending the Blue Division to join the Nazi invasion of Russia) he turned down American requests to send Spanish troops to Vietnam in the 1960s. He was rather well valued by American Republicans in his day I think. For instance Barry Goldwater held him in high esteem from what I read somewhere perhaps in another book on him. Franco has integrity of first order whatever you think of his firm right wing hold. I am also considering reading Camilo Jose Cela´s novel San Camilo 1936. Like Franco´s own brother he was free wheeling Mason (oh not them again, let them be! can be heard from sighs here!) yet also a Spanish teller of murky stories with skill.
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Post by cato on Feb 27, 2024 11:08:28 GMT
Despite its length its a remarkablely easy enjoyable read Tomas. He had a terribly difficult painful death with surgeons doing all they could to keep him alive even when all realistic chance of recovery had vanished. Despite his anticommunism (sending the Blue Division to join the Nazi invasion of Russia) he turned down American requests to send Spanish troops to Vietnam in the 1960s. He was rather well valued by American Republicans in his day I think. For instance Barry Goldwater held him in high esteem from what I read somewhere perhaps in another book on him. Franco has integrity of first order whatever you think of his firm right wing hold. I am also considering reading Camilo Jose Cela´s novel San Camilo 1936. Like Franco´s own brother he was free wheeling Mason (oh not them again, let them be! can be heard from sighs here!) yet also a Spanish teller of murky stories with skill. His anti masonic beliefs were central to his outlook. Continental masonry does deserve objective historical study as there seems to a clear direct link with masonry secularism and anti Catholicism. US Masonry was very influential among the founding fathers. Franco according to Payne modified his stance due to his warm relationship with President Eisenhower in the 1950s. Ike was a very open Free Mason and a prominent member of the International family planning association.....
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Post by Tomas on Feb 27, 2024 13:24:55 GMT
He was rather well valued by American Republicans in his day I think. For instance Barry Goldwater held him in high esteem from what I read somewhere perhaps in another book on him. Franco has integrity of first order whatever you think of his firm right wing hold. I am also considering reading Camilo Jose Cela´s novel San Camilo 1936. Like Franco´s own brother he was free wheeling Mason (oh not them again, let them be! can be heard from sighs here!) yet also a Spanish teller of murky stories with skill. His anti masonic beliefs were central to his outlook. Continental masonry does deserve objective historical study as there seems to a clear direct link with masonry secularism and anti Catholicism. US Masonry was very influential among the founding fathers. Franco according to Payne modified his stance due to his warm relationship with President Eisenhower in the 1950s. Ike was a very open Free Mason and a prominent member of the International family planning association..... Their prominent role in Italy/Vatican affairs cannot be ignored. Ike has always seemed a nice guy and a decent high officer. Pity that he were liberal Mason as well. I remember Catholic conservative William F. Buckley having some reservations in regard to his impact. Another good fellow in the wrong company is old Mark Twain, along with founding fathers and others. Being nice is not enough to get a free pass as harmless in real issues still. A priest reminded me once or twice that probably even Hitler himself could be a nice host to his guests at dinners etc. Masons may be taken as a good joke mostly but their sinister sides always tends to creep in from behind. Least in the Mediterranean or French conflicts. I tend to having a soft spot of admiration even for the bravery of Garibaldi. But knowing he was their grand master, or whatever the title goes, got the picture darkened taken together. Maybe it is a question of surface and deeper inside. We can never know the heart of anyone perhaps, also important to weigh in. Harmless or not it all comes down to the crucial matter of this: sin, or not sin.
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Post by Tomas on Mar 6, 2024 13:01:43 GMT
Franco was not the most ideal of the Fascist dictators but he is a symbol of Fascism. I think he was more "ideal" than the others during 20th century and not fascist himself, rather holding the various groups under his personal rule in practise. The conservative Carlists and several others, the falangists also not least, were very different in outlook, and thus no simple task or achievement on the right wing then and there.
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