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Boris
Jul 23, 2019 12:40:34 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 23, 2019 12:40:34 GMT
The new British prime minister will probably follow in the footsteps of Mrs Thatcher in that he tends to divide people into admirers or those who loath him. Whether he will reign as long or mould the UK in the same way is perhaps more unlikely. Up to several months ago Johnson was written off as a potential PM. His election is a great example of a political return from the dead.
The new prime minister is a social liberal , but opposed to imposing abortion and gay marriage on Northern Ireland as parliament recently shamefully agreed to , prompted by pro abortion zealots in the Labour party.
Johnson now an Anglican was baptised a catholic. Widely viewed as "stupid" by the highly educated Irish media he narrowly missed out on a First in Classics in Oxford. He gained his place through a competitive scholarship originally set up by Henry VIII. He can converse in Latin and spent many years in journalism . In fact he was writing in the Telegraph up to a few weeks ago. Perhaps this explains his stupid reputation.
In recent weeks it has become clear from EU sources that the UK negotiating team made very little attempt to argue with them and in fact accepted their positions during the Brexit negotiations. The new PM is the first Brexit prime minister since the referendum. He is faced with an EU that publically will not budge and an arithmetic in parliament that hasn't changed.
It is going to be an interesting few months for Britain , Ireland and Europe.
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Boris
Jul 23, 2019 12:50:55 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 23, 2019 12:50:55 GMT
I forgot to add what might make him different to recent prime ministers.
He has charisma and is not a defeatist or a believer in the decline of the UK. He communicates with enthusiasm and is larger than life.He has the potential to make Brexit work and to defeat Jeremy Corbyn unlike any of the other alternatives.
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Boris
Jul 24, 2019 7:26:07 GMT
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Post by Séamus on Jul 24, 2019 7:26:07 GMT
The new British prime minister will probably follow in the footsteps of Mrs Thatcher in that he tends to divide people into admirers or those who loath him. Whether he will reign as long or mould the UK in the same way is perhaps more unlikely. Up to several months ago Johnston was written off as a potential PM. His election is a great example of a political return from the dead. The new prime minister is a social liberal , but opposed to imposing abortion and gay marriage on Northern Ireland as parliament recently shamefully agreed to , prompted by pro abortion zealots in the Labour party.....etc... It is going to be an interesting few months for Britain , Ireland and Europe. I wonder would that change if he no longer needed DUP seats to prop up his government? I remember a minor controversy during his time as mayor when he disallowed a pro-life group to hire billboard space in London for a pro-marriage or family campaign
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Boris
Jul 24, 2019 10:05:09 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 24, 2019 10:05:09 GMT
[/quote] I wonder would that change if he no longer needed DUP seats to prop up his government? I remember a minor controversy during his time as mayor when he disallowed a pro-life group to hire billboard space in London for a pro-marriage or family campaign[/quote]
Most conservatives support devolution in Northern Ireland and arguably have since partition in 1920. They tend not to micromanage the north particularly around sensitive social issues. It is a wise stance.
In the unlikely event Boris asks for my advice he should call an immediate general election on who rules the UK specifically on Brexit. He needs a clear majority which he currently hasn't got. It would be a risk as he could let in a Labour government . Creating an electoral alliance with Nigel Farage might just deliver a majority in parliament. To muddle along on the present arithmetic will lead to a similar confused outcome as we are currently in.
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Boris
Jul 24, 2019 14:01:40 GMT
Post by kj on Jul 24, 2019 14:01:40 GMT
I'm living in England. Like a lot of people here, I have made an executive decision to switch off from Brexit for stress-related reasons, so can someone who has been following it tell me what exactly will Boris be able to do that others haven't?
By the way, for those cheerleading for Brexit people I know who work in the British government have told me that people have been instructed not to throw away out-of-date medicine, as they expect a serious crisis in supplies if a no-deal scenario materialises.
I say this because for many Brexiteers there seems to be very little awareness of the real-life consequences for many people. It's not just entertainment, which is why I am tiring somewhat of the "EU as the Fourth Reich" model relentlessly put forward by many people.
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Boris
Jul 24, 2019 14:28:11 GMT
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 24, 2019 14:28:11 GMT
I'm living in England. Like a lot of people here, I have made an executive decision to switch off from Brexit for stress-related reasons, so can someone who has been following it tell me what exactly will Boris be able to do that others haven't? By the way, for those cheerleading for Brexit people I know who work in the British government have told me that people have been instructed not to throw away out-of-date medicine, as they expect a serious crisis in supplies if a no-deal scenario materialises. I say this because for many Brexiteers there seems to be very little awareness of the real-life consequences for many people. It's not just entertainment, which is why I am tiring somewhat of the "EU as the Fourth Reich" model relentlessly put forward by many people. But the credibility of such predictions has been the focus of much of the debate. I imagine that many people who voted Leave did believe they were credible but felt it was worth taking the hit.
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Boris
Jul 24, 2019 14:37:33 GMT
Post by kj on Jul 24, 2019 14:37:33 GMT
Seeing as how one of the main planks of the Brexit campaign was lies about how much money was being paid to the EU and how much could be diverted to the NHS (spearheaded by Boris, let us not forget), I very much doubt it.
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Boris
Jul 24, 2019 19:43:54 GMT
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Séamus likes this
Post by cato on Jul 24, 2019 19:43:54 GMT
I'm living in England. Like a lot of people here, I have made an executive decision to switch off from Brexit for stress-related reasons, so can someone who has been following it tell me what exactly will Boris be able to do that others haven't? By the way, for those cheerleading for Brexit people I know who work in the British government have told me that people have been instructed not to throw away out-of-date medicine, as they expect a serious crisis in supplies if a no-deal scenario materialises. I say this because for many Brexiteers there seems to be very little awareness of the real-life consequences for many people. It's not just entertainment, which is why I am tiring somewhat of the "EU as the Fourth Reich" model relentlessly put forward by many people. Perhaps I am being niave but expecting the sovereign decision of the people in a referendum to be honoured is hardly an extreme point of view. I am disappointed from an Irish self interest point of view that they are departing but they made the decision freely. Some of the promises made by Brexiteers were untrue but many of the doom Laden predictions of an economic crash if the people voted to leave were equally untrue. The EU may not be the fourth Reich but it has been inflexible , mean spirited and blind to the reasons why millions of Europeans are unhappy with the direction it is taking. It is significant that few in the UK were able to make a positive argument about why Britain should stay . Instead they threatened an economic stone age and accused their opponents of being racists and closet imperialists.
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Post by servantofthechief on Jul 25, 2019 15:36:15 GMT
Boris has both surprised and impressed me with his most recent actions in Parliament as of late. First by telling the EU Britain was leaving by the end of October deal or no deal, which is nothing new, May said similar thinks but hand wrung all the way to the current day without pressing the leave button. But then he goes ahead and tears up the backstop, while promising Britain will honour the Good Friday Agreement and all it entails (which is really what matters, because Brexit does not abrogate the agreements made between Ireland and Britain vis a vis the North, and intimation that it does or will lead to violence here in the North are lies of the most outrageous sort) while telling the EU that either they will renegotiate a fairer deal or there will be no deal at all. This is the backbone May was lacking all throughout the debacle that was her term, the EU has been utterly inflexible even when presented with the most agreeable terms that outraged her own parliament, so telling them to be reasonable or get bent is absolutely appropriate. Its also relevant because people familiar with the economic relationships between Britain and Europe will know Britain leaving will be a disastrous shake up to the already shaky Euro (and the Euroe's shakiness and the economic shenanigans it entailed was another, less talked about motivation for Brexit), Britain leaving on its own wouldnt break the Euro, but Brexit plus everything else going on just might, and lets be honest, we've all seen what the EU has done to Greece, they've brought this on themselves. So Boris calling the EU's bluff, which May never did, is actually the best possible tactic to bring about an actual working deal because the EU now has to deal with someone who wont fold and isn't afraid to bloody his nose to break their jaw.
He also promptly sacked all the remainer Tories in Cabinet and packed it full of Brexiteers, which means at the very least, he seems to be serious about delivering Brexit. I have no illusions about him fixing literally anything else about Britain though, but then, no one else would have, or were inclined to either, except perhaps Mogg. He's a typical Business Tory, not a High Tory or a populist Tory, so I dont expect much on things like Immigration and Religion, British Culture, the Multikultistan-ification of London, etc. At least he'll probably be funny and Trump friendly, so economically, Britain has a trade deal to look forward to with America.
As for Ireland I actually agree with the National Party's leader on this matter. when the votes were passed, Ireland should have immediately went to London and said 'Look, we'll back your plan and negotiations with the EU for a Brexit trade deal, so long as you back us up on the situation between us economically, so the border doesn't become a problem when you leave the Union.' Which would have been the smart thing to do for Ireland, and calm economic fears all around. And in the beginning stages of Brexit, it actually seemed like Dublin was going to do exactly that until suddenly their tunes changed and they went full in for backing Verhofsdat and the EU's side of the argument, drowning out all actual facts on the ground and countering arguments. Of course if you've been paying attention for the past 20 years, it shouldn't surprise anyone why this turn of affairs came about or why it did.
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Boris
Jul 25, 2019 18:41:37 GMT
Post by kj on Jul 25, 2019 18:41:37 GMT
I'm living in England. Like a lot of people here, I have made an executive decision to switch off from Brexit for stress-related reasons, so can someone who has been following it tell me what exactly will Boris be able to do that others haven't? By the way, for those cheerleading for Brexit people I know who work in the British government have told me that people have been instructed not to throw away out-of-date medicine, as they expect a serious crisis in supplies if a no-deal scenario materialises. I say this because for many Brexiteers there seems to be very little awareness of the real-life consequences for many people. It's not just entertainment, which is why I am tiring somewhat of the "EU as the Fourth Reich" model relentlessly put forward by many people. Some of the promises made by Brexiteers were untrue but many of the doom Laden predictions of an economic crash if the people voted to leave were equally untrue. Cato, seeing as how they haven't left yet, I'd say you're being a bit pre-emptory!
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Boris
Jul 26, 2019 21:31:47 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 26, 2019 21:31:47 GMT
quote]Cato, seeing as how they haven't left yet, I'd say you're being a bit pre-emptory![/quote]
I was referring to a predicted negative economic impact widely predicted after a vote to leave. That has not happened. In fact UK growth is higher than the EU average since the referendum.
I have no idea what will happen post an actual Brexit departure but most of the predictions of doom are simple negative crystal ball gazing. Economists have no real idea about the medium to long term effects of British withdrawal. The UK is big enough to make a sucess either leaving or remaining in my view.
The EU and UK will presumably in time negiotate a mutually beneficial relationship. The agreement we may get in October will , like most economic agreements , will not be carved in stone and will be modified and changed over time. The remain lobby rarely admit this.
The UK also provides a very valuable military contribution to European defence via NATO much more than some European union member nations who refuse to contribute anything. Should the international climate turn cold then perhaps the EU may realise how important that security cooperation is.
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