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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 18, 2019 12:11:58 GMT
What do you think of this phrase, often used for immigrants into Ireland?
I don't like it. And it's not because I don't think someone can come to Ireland and become Irish. I think they can. But it doesn't happen immediately and there's also a question of intent and purpose. Are they coming here to work for a while and leave, or are they coming to stay? And if they are coming to stay, are they going to respect the existing (or, more accurately, the historical) culture of the nation? Do they approach the culture with an attitude of respect or do they have a negative, critical attitude from the start?
I also think "New Irish" is quite demeaning to the heritage of the people who come. They have their own traditions and culture. You can't just flip a switch on these things.
I think it's a facile phrase.
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Post by cato on Oct 18, 2019 13:46:29 GMT
I agree it is a superficial expression but I think the expression "non Irish" to define foreign born residents is also unintentionally comical. I am critical of uncontrolled foreign population increases but it is part and parcel of this state's economic and strategic vision. Ireland is now modelled on states like Australia , New Zealand UK etc To maximise economic growth we favour low corporation taxes , limited regulation and what is most relevant here free movement of people.
This is a fact of life here and one we never consciously voted for.We sleep walked into the greatest change in our history since the English conquest.
We have never debated why we liberalised citizenship requirements especially with people who have no ancestoral link to Ireland. A government that hands out Irish passports to middle Easterners like snuff at a wake would be horrified if we granted a right of return to the Irish Diaspora , like the Israeli model of citizenship.
Integration is a subject we rarely hear debated. I do think we need to look at how we create citizens and what responsibilities we demand of citizens specifically new ones. It is pathetic for example that we allow Irish passport holders to go off and fight in foreign lands for death cults who butcher innocents.
I think people on the right oppose immigration full stop and don't demand or think about what standards we should impose on new citizens. I fear this is a short sighted approach.
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Post by Antaine on Oct 23, 2019 10:13:20 GMT
Pardon for being the controversial one as usual, but as far as I'm concerned the term is nothing more than a softening term for what is simply racial replacement.
If anyone thinks I'm being racist, or that replacement theory is simply a "Far Right Conspiracy", then I'm dying to know the following:
Why is it that we here in the West are constantly urged to have less babies despite our birthrates already being through the floor, while simultaneously being told that we need to import third worlders because "Oops, we've run out of young people to make future generations. Better just order them in." Why not just create our own? Cue the articles about how having more than 1 or 2 children is bad for the earth/climate change. As if any of that is worth a damn when your entire country/people has been replaced anyway.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 23, 2019 11:12:14 GMT
Pardon for being the controversial one as usual, but as far as I'm concerned the term is nothing more than a softening term for what is simply racial replacement. If anyone thinks I'm being racist, or that replacement theory is simply a "Far Right Conspiracy", then I'm dying to know the following: Why is it that we here in the West are constantly urged to have less babies despite our birthrates already being through the floor, while simultaneously being told that we need to import third worlders because "Oops, we've run out of young people to make future generations. Better just order them in." Why not just create our own? Cue the articles about how having more than 1 or 2 children is bad for the earth/climate change. As if any of that is worth a damn when your entire country/people has been replaced anyway. I'd be surprised if anyone were to accuse you of racism here! Indeed, it's a very good question. I think even the liberals are waking up to our demographic crisis. Indeed, only yesterday I came across this strange story from Denmark, and there have been similar initiatives in other countries. www.businessinsider.com/do-it-for-denmark-ad-campaign-to-encourage-pregnancy-2015-10?r=US&IR=TThe thing about immigration is; even if we radically tightened our immigration policy, we're never going to have zero immigration. At least, I can't see it in the current state of affairs. How do we view the new arrivals? Are they Irish? Can they become Irish? When and how? Where do they fit into our culture?
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Post by cato on Oct 23, 2019 14:14:34 GMT
I think the idea we are being racially displaced deliberately is daft. Yes we are being encouraged disastrously to contacept and abort.
And we are told we need cheap surplus Labour now that we are running out of workers to keep the economy humming along ! I think this shows how short sighted our population planning sex obsessed establishment are.
Displacement is happening because we don't join the demographic dots and not because the globalists want to dilute the pale skined Gaelic population.
Never underestimate the stupidity of our masters. To assume they have a master plan is to credit them with an intelligence they rarely ever display in normal everyday interactions.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 23, 2019 15:02:40 GMT
I think the idea we are being racially displaced deliberately is daft. Yes we are being encouraged disastrously to contacept and abort. And we are told we need cheap surplus Labour now that we are running out of workers to keep the economy humming along ! I think this shows how short sighted our population planning sex obsessed establishment are. Displacement is happening because we don't join the demographic dots and not because the globalists want to dilute the pale skined Gaelic population. I don't believe there is some cabal actively trying to replace one populace with another. But I DO believe there are people in high places, in the EU and elsewhere, who are actively seeking to undermine national cultures and to make populations more malleable to social engineering. www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395
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Post by Young Ireland on Oct 23, 2019 21:08:20 GMT
Pardon for being the controversial one as usual, but as far as I'm concerned the term is nothing more than a softening term for what is simply racial replacement. If anyone thinks I'm being racist, or that replacement theory is simply a "Far Right Conspiracy", then I'm dying to know the following: Why is it that we here in the West are constantly urged to have less babies despite our birthrates already being through the floor, while simultaneously being told that we need to import third worlders because "Oops, we've run out of young people to make future generations. Better just order them in." Why not just create our own? Cue the articles about how having more than 1 or 2 children is bad for the earth/climate change. As if any of that is worth a damn when your entire country/people has been replaced anyway. I'd be surprised if anyone were to accuse you of racism here! Indeed, it's a very good question. I think even the liberals are waking up to our demographic crisis. Indeed, only yesterday I came across this strange story from Denmark, and there have been similar initiatives in other countries. www.businessinsider.com/do-it-for-denmark-ad-campaign-to-encourage-pregnancy-2015-10?r=US&IR=TThe thing about immigration is; even if we radically tightened our immigration policy, we're never going to have zero immigration. At least, I can't see it in the current state of affairs. How do we view the new arrivals? Are they Irish? Can they become Irish? When and how? Where do they fit into our culture? The issue, I think, is that the liberals are trying to have their cake and eat it, i.e. trying to prolong the sexual revolution while attempting to postpone its consequences. That's basically what it boils down to and talking about the "Great Replacement" is a diversion from the real problems that our country is facing. (In fact I would argue that for what it's worth, Ireland's population has already been "replaced" twice, first by the Celts 3,000 years ago and then by the Viking and Norman invasions. I would argue that ethnic Celts are already a minority, and I imagine that the number of people who can trace their ancestry back to pre-Celtic times is vanishingly small. If someone were to say that anyone with Viking, Norman or Anglo-Scottish ancestry was not Irish even though their ancestors have lived here for centuries, they would most likely be laughed out of the room. Yet this is what the "Great Replacement" theory implies, that the newcomers will never be truly Irish, even if they integrate into mainstream Irish society).
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Post by cato on Oct 23, 2019 22:15:30 GMT
I don't believe there is some cabal actively trying to replace one populace with another. But I DO believe there are people in high places, in the EU and elsewhere, who are actively seeking to undermine national cultures and to make populations more malleable to social engineering. www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395[/quote]Sunderland the subject of the video is also the subject of a new biography I saw in Hodges Figgis today. Unusually he was quite open about being a practising Catholic not that should absolve him of criticism . He held some grandiose Machiavellian and disturbingly elitist views.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 24, 2019 10:27:48 GMT
I'd be surprised if anyone were to accuse you of racism here! Indeed, it's a very good question. I think even the liberals are waking up to our demographic crisis. Indeed, only yesterday I came across this strange story from Denmark, and there have been similar initiatives in other countries. www.businessinsider.com/do-it-for-denmark-ad-campaign-to-encourage-pregnancy-2015-10?r=US&IR=TThe thing about immigration is; even if we radically tightened our immigration policy, we're never going to have zero immigration. At least, I can't see it in the current state of affairs. How do we view the new arrivals? Are they Irish? Can they become Irish? When and how? Where do they fit into our culture? The issue, I think, is that the liberals are trying to have their cake and eat it, i.e. trying to prolong the sexual revolution while attempting to postpone its consequences. That's basically what it boils down to and talking about the "Great Replacement" is a diversion from the real problems that our country is facing. (In fact I would argue that for what it's worth, Ireland's population has already been "replaced" twice, first by the Celts 3,000 years ago and then by the Viking and Norman invasions. I would argue that ethnic Celts are already a minority, and I imagine that the number of people who can trace their ancestry back to pre-Celtic times is vanishingly small. If someone were to say that anyone with Viking, Norman or Anglo-Scottish ancestry was not Irish even though their ancestors have lived here for centuries, they would most likely be laughed out of the room. Yet this is what the "Great Replacement" theory implies, that the newcomers will never be truly Irish, even if they integrate into mainstream Irish society). But all these years later "Celtic" retains its prestige, and the Viking and Norman invasions are still seen as bad things (despite the efforts of Roy Foster et al.)-- even if their descendants eventually became fully integrated. The argument is often made that the Vikings and Normans became "more Irish than the Irish themselves" and that we can expect a new fusion to come from immigration today, one that is uniquely Irish. But the historical circumstances seem very different to me now. We have international instant communications, easy international travel, and a homogenizing global culture which is squeezing all national cultures. It's very different from those medieval settlers being cut off from home by barriers of time and space which were much more formidable back then. And I have to admit every time I use the term "integrated" I feel troubled. Somebody who comes to Ireland has a history and tradition and culture of their own already. Should they just give that up? My preference is for culturally homogeneous nation states with only small-scale immigration, too small to make any demographic difference. But in the absence of that I really wonder if " salad bowl multiculturalism" is the best approach. Perhaps even to the extent of the government taking on responsibility to foster each individual culture which is present in large enough numbers.
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Post by Antaine on Nov 19, 2019 22:47:05 GMT
I don't think all people involved have racial replacement as the end game agenda. I'm sure there are a plethora of reasons. However, such people do exist. The fact that in certain parts of the (Western) world, the term white is used as a shut down word should suggest something is off. Then, there are people who genuinely welcome the idea of racial replacement, such as this German politician:
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Post by cato on Jan 22, 2020 14:05:04 GMT
It's strange that up until recently at least Irish emigrants to say the USA or Australia became after a period of exile Irish -Americans or Irish-Australians. That hypen seemed to indicate a hybrid inbetween status. Proud to be Irish in many cases but also willing to become full citizens of a new state. There were never any Irish-British or Irish -Scots but that's another tale.
Strange too that as soon as anyone from no matter where gets an Irish passport they now automatically become as Irish as Peg Sayers. We all know this is nonsense but why don't we accept new comers for a period will be a distinct community in our midst. Some may integrate very rapidly where others may stay in a small group of their compatriots. Just like the experience of Irish abroad.
Identity is a complex thing but pretending that getting a passport with a harp on it makes you automatically 100% Irish is downright dishonest.
Social Theorists often refer to Nation states as "Imagined" communities. We seem to have gone a step further in Ireland and are asking people to accept an Imaginery community.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 22, 2020 14:35:46 GMT
It's strange that up until recently at least Irish emigrants to say the USA or Australia became after a period of exile Irish -Americans or Irish-Australians. That hypen seemed to indicate a hybrid inbetween status. Proud to be Irish in many cases but also willing to become full citizens of a new state. There were never any Irish-British or Irish -Scots but that's another tale. Strange too that as soon as anyone from no matter where gets an Irish passport they now automatically become as Irish as Peg Sayers. We all know this is nonsense but why don't we accept new comers for a period will be a distinct community in our midst. Some may integrate very rapidly where others may stay in a small group of their compatriots. Just like the experience of Irish abroad. Identity is a complex thing but pretending that getting a passport with a harp on it makes you automatically 100% Irish is downright dishonest. Social Theorists often refer to Nation states as "Imagined" communities. We seem to have gone a step further in Ireland and are asking people to accept an Imaginery community. I couldn't agree more, Cato. The immigration debate is much bigger than just immigration-- it's about nationality, belonging, culture, and assimilation. "As Irish as Peig Sayers" is a good way to put it. If Irishness means nothing more than a stamp on your passport-- that and nothing more-- it doesn't mean very much. (To put it another way, there are many Irish people whose parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were born here, but who don't seem to have much in the way of meaningful nationality themselves.)
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 24, 2020 1:30:16 GMT
I follow the Facebook page Gaeilge Amháin and sometimes contribute to it. Today there was a post congratulating three girls on some achievement at a technology festival and calling it a victory for 'mná na hÉireann". There was a picture of the girls and they were all black. The comments were all congratulations until it came to one person with an African name who indignantly denounced this as "the white devil" (actual words used) grabbing glory from Africans. The commenter added that he or she was African and living in Ireland and considered himself/herself African, not Irish.
Personally I'm very happy to consider these young ladies Irish. Or African, if they prefer. Or both. But I thought it was an amusing situation. Nobody had made any reply to this. What could they say? You can't keep up with progressivism.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 24, 2020 17:33:48 GMT
After looking at a few more of his posts, I'm guessing the guy is just a troll.
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Post by kj on Aug 24, 2020 19:39:29 GMT
Such a shame if it is a troll. I knew a guy who as an experiment set up a fake FB account as a black man and went round some lib groups espousing his support for dictators, family life, marriage, anti-LGBT etc in the most forceful language and no one dared challenge him.
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