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Post by Séamus on Jul 19, 2020 7:19:12 GMT
The problem with "alternative" Covid theories is that some are simple denial theories. We have experienced huge disruption globally and yet some imply its some sort of hoax or merely a variant of the common flu. This flu variant is highly infectious , is quite nasty to experience, and is highly dangerous for vulnerable groups who include the elderly, medics and those with respiratory problems. Like the infamous 1918 flu which killed more than the great war itself we have no idea what a potential 2nd or 3rd wave will bring. The 2nd wave in 1918 specifically attacked the youngest and healthiest let it be recalled. Modern medical systems are very vulnerable to sudden demands on A and E systems. Italy was overwhelmed earlier this year and their doctors were deciding which patients could live and which had to be denied treatment. No doctor wants to have let patients die unnecessary. In India at present 3/4 of Covid patients are being turned away from treatment. That is horrendous. We are only partially through this disease and we will only be able to objectively assess it once it's over and life hopefully can return to normal. There are many questions we can raise and should about how our governments have acted to date but to minimise the enormity of Covid is misleading. We can be critical and questioning . That doesn't mean we entertain "alternative " excuses or theories. That is surrendering to another post modern conspiracy theory. Conservatives generally stick to common sense explanations and solutions. There may have been many mistakes made throughout history in times of pandemic,but I'd imagine we do need to be cautious about going too far in the other direction. This is not the last contagious sickness that will be detected. Given the advancements of modern microbiology there is precious little that won't be detected in the future...are we really to shutdown everything, everytime from now on? I'm hearing different versions of Sweden's statistics, some saying that the toll is high on account of the different direction taken,others saying that the relative numbers are no higher than locked down countries. What about Belarus?
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Post by hilary on Jul 19, 2020 21:38:13 GMT
"If someone is not open for alternative narration, that means they are not critical thinking. Most Irish hates minister of health for mess in health system, same people believ that now gouverment acts in our safe ! Really ? Once again make some effort and look for number people dead in last year. Is really huge difference ? Think !!"
I agree Andy. There is so much uncertainty in relation to the virus that it doesn't make sense not to have a discussion and how can we trust these people who so recently facilitated the introduction of abortion?
Unherd had a good discussion yesterday with two doctors - evidence-based - and seemingly not funded by big Pharma as so many of our experts seem to be. Also Dr Vernon Coleman. Dr Marcus de Brun is one of the only Irish doctors speaking out. It seems that all HSE staff are forbidden to speak to the media but it's surely only a matter of time before some do. Surely...?
I know it's important to try and keep an open mind and understand the genuine fear that some people have but the masks on the altar I do not like.
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Post by cato on Jul 19, 2020 23:08:46 GMT
[quote author=" Séamus" There may have been many mistakes made throughout history in times of pandemic,but I'd imagine we do need to be cautious about going too far in the other direction. This is not the last contagious sickness that will be detected. Given the advancements of modern microbiology there is precious little that won't be detected in the future...are we really to shutdown everything, everytime from now on? I'm hearing different versions of Sweden's statistics, some saying that the toll is high on account of the different direction taken,others saying that the relative numbers are no higher than locked down countries. What about Belarus?[/quote] You make some very good points Seamus. In recent history people in the West have been comparatively lucky compared to their European ancestors or people in less developed countries. Covid for all its perils has quite low fatality levels so far . Thank God. How would we cope with a much more lethal disease? This may not be an academic question but regularly shutting down the economy is not an option. I do sympathise with the Swedish approach. The Swedes are Independent and self reliant and a bit standoffish too which helps in social isolating .Whether their approach will be proven right is still in the balance. Probably too soon to tell at present. I noticed the Belarus maskless marches to recall the 1945 victory in May last but haven't heard any news about an upsurge there so far.
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Post by Séamus on Jul 21, 2020 3:23:38 GMT
[quote author=" Séamus" There may have been many mistakes made throughout history in times of pandemic,but I'd imagine we do need to be cautious about going too far in the other direction. This is not the last contagious sickness that will be detected. Given the advancements of modern microbiology there is precious little that won't be detected in the future...are we really to shutdown everything, everytime from now on? I'm hearing different versions of Sweden's statistics, some saying that the toll is high on account of the different direction taken,others saying that the relative numbers are no higher than locked down countries. What about Belarus? You make some very good points Seamus. In recent history people in the West have been comparatively lucky compared to their European ancestors or people in less developed countries. Covid for all its perils has quite low fatality levels so far . Thank God. How would we cope with a much more lethal disease? This may not be an academic question but regularly shutting down the economy is not an option. I do sympathise with the Swedish approach. The Swedes are Independent and self reliant and a bit standoffish too which helps in social isolating .Whether their approach will be proven right is still in the balance. Probably too soon to tell at present. I noticed the Belarus maskless marches to recall the 1945 victory in May last but haven't heard any news about an upsurge there so far.[/quote] * * * * * * ******** * * * * * * * ******* ****** As a footnote, the covid19 restrictions certainly saved much embarassment for Princess Beatrice and family who would have seen themselves in quite a dilemma otherwise, with full TV coverage usually expected at Windsor weddings. Something her father, whether guilty by association or not, could hardly endure at present. Perhaps the future countess may retire to her in-laws' Italian estate sooner rather than later.
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Post by hilary on Jul 21, 2020 15:46:31 GMT
[quote author=" cato Conservatives generally stick to common sense explanations and solutions.[/quote] Just been to a local bookshop where all the young people serving were wearing masks. When she saw me without one the girl who was helping me took hers down to breathe for a few minutes. I asked her if customers would have to wear one next week and she said yes they would. I told her I wouldn't be in, so. I think it would be common sense to let people decide for themselves whether they want to wear a mask or not. Outside I met someone I knew who was wearing a mask. He was totally convinced he was doing the right thing "if it saves one life" etc. I asked him if he only watches RTE and he said no, BBC and C4 too. He said he wouldn't believe anything he read online. What are the crazy conspiracy theories? Isn't that just a term of abuse these days?
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Covid-19
Jul 21, 2020 17:12:59 GMT
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Post by Mary on Jul 21, 2020 17:12:59 GMT
[quote author=" cato Conservatives generally stick to common sense explanations and solutions. Just been to a local bookshop where all the young people serving were wearing masks. When she saw me without one the girl who was helping me took hers down to breathe for a few minutes. I asked her if customers would have to wear one next week and she said yes they would. I told her I wouldn't be in, so. I think it would be common sense to let people decide for themselves whether they want to wear a mask or not. Outside I met someone I knew who was wearing a mask. He was totally convinced he was doing the right thing "if it saves one life" etc. I asked him if he only watches RTE and he said no, BBC and C4 too. He said he wouldn't believe anything he read online. What are the crazy conspiracy theories? Isn't that just a term of abuse these days?[/quote] ma
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Covid-19
Jul 21, 2020 17:18:52 GMT
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Post by Mary on Jul 21, 2020 17:18:52 GMT
I'm glad you have decided to stay out of shops as you do not wish to wear a face mask. The authorities are doing their best to contain this pandemic and facemasks have ben reliably been found to help. I wear one in buses and shops and studiously avoid being near anyone who fails to wear one even to the point of changing seats on a bus journey. They are not comfortable to wear but if they work and I feel I have to accept what those who know more about diseasethan I do say, it is worth the discomfort.
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Covid-19
Jul 21, 2020 18:55:47 GMT
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Post by hilary on Jul 21, 2020 18:55:47 GMT
Thanks for your reply Mary. On the one hand I wish I had your faith in the authorities but on the other I'm glad I don't have your fear of the virus.
I will probably try and get my books bought in the local shop (which is a woke chain unfortunately) before Monday. I don't know how these businesses will survive.
If a staff member has asthma he/she can't really work there, so presumably there will be constitutional challenges on equality grounds.
I wonder if you've watched "Secular Sharia" by Computing Forever in the last few days? I know that might be considered conspiracy theory territory but to me it's the more convincing, sadly. I must try RTE again.
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Covid-19
Jul 21, 2020 22:13:14 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 21, 2020 22:13:14 GMT
I'm glad you have decided to stay out of shops as you do not wish to wear a face mask. The authorities are doing their best to contain this pandemic and facemasks have ben reliably been found to help. I wear one in buses and shops and studiously avoid being near anyone who fails to wear one even to the point of changing seats on a bus journey. They are not comfortable to wear but if they work and I feel I have to accept what those who know more about diseasethan I do say, it is worth the discomfort. Mary we wear masks to prevent giving Covid to others. You do realise This?
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Post by cato on Jul 21, 2020 22:18:31 GMT
Thanks for your reply Mary. On the one hand I wish I had your faith in the authorities but on the other I'm glad I don't have your fear of the virus. I will probably try and get my books bought in the local shop (which is a woke chain unfortunately) before Monday. I don't know how these businesses will survive. If a staff member has asthma he/she can't really work there, so presumably there will be constitutional challenges on equality grounds. I wonder if you've watched "Secular Sharia" by Computing Forever in the last few days? I know that might be considered conspiracy theory territory but to me it's the more convincing, sadly. I must try RTE again. Hilary I think the government realise we need to get people out buying things again but they are spooked at rising infection rates so they are now pushing mask wearing to give people confidence after denying they had any use since March! Those rising rates are not linked to buses or shops but house parties that are ignored by the Gardai. I for one will be shopping less . I will wear a mask with gritted teeth but will shop and spend less which is precisely what many others will do too.
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Covid-19
Jul 21, 2020 23:15:42 GMT
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cato likes this
Post by hilary on Jul 21, 2020 23:15:42 GMT
I'm glad you have decided to stay out of shops as you do not wish to wear a face mask. The authorities are doing their best to contain this pandemic and facemasks have ben reliably been found to help. I wear one in buses and shops and studiously avoid being near anyone who fails to wear one even to the point of changing seats on a bus journey. They are not comfortable to wear but if they work and I feel I have to accept what those who know more about diseasethan I do say, it is worth the discomfort. Mary we wear masks to prevent giving Covid to others. You do realise This? It's confusing but if Mary is avoiding someone who's not wearing a mask even though she is wearing one herself that would make sense (her mask might not give her protection). I read some of the Covid response committee contributions from today's meeting and something that was discussed was the flu vaccine and trying to get as many health workers to avail of it. I worry about mandatory vaccinations but I see now that it's more of an immediate threat to health workers who could be out of a job if they don't fancy getting it. Some don't get the flu vaccine. Prime Time interviewed an Irish Professor Adrian from Oxford who's involved in the Covid vaccine. He referred to "vaccine hesitancy" and said "there's a new word".. Hopefully it's safe and it won't be forced on us or our children.
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Covid-19
Jul 22, 2020 9:03:59 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2020 9:03:59 GMT
A surprising amount of people do believe a mask primarily protects them . The logic is that if all infected people wear them then that will cut the spread. The flaws in this approach are obvious.
Mary s neighbours on the bus needed to wear their masks to protect her to make this work. In addition the primary protection is still social distancing and frequent handwashing. Masks are to be used when you can't socially distance .
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Post by Tomas on Oct 20, 2020 18:44:35 GMT
High time to evaluate some of the massive evil side-effects (in reality main effects) caused (not solved) by the weird insistance on unproportional lockdowns and extremist measures, and the whole business in endless letting it drag on as weirdly far as possible, no matter what, while aggressively sneering at any critic asking sane questions of even cautious nature. This is a prudent overview from Tom Woods Jr, the very best thing I´ve found lately out there! www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy3tP-BW5do&fbclid=IwAR1OXCrlZg6fNNmek7fgVZcBat7jpXg5gpTnq4DSIPn9uDJgD885V8_7SJA
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Post by Tomas on Nov 16, 2020 23:12:00 GMT
"If someone is not open for alternative narration, that means they are not critical thinking. Most Irish hates minister of health for mess in health system, same people believ that now gouverment acts in our safe ! Really ? Once again make some effort and look for number people dead in last year. Is really huge difference ? Think !!" I agree Andy. There is so much uncertainty in relation to the virus that it doesn't make sense not to have a discussion and how can we trust these people who so recently facilitated the introduction of abortion? Unherd had a good discussion yesterday with two doctors - evidence-based - and seemingly not funded by big Pharma as so many of our experts seem to be. Also Dr Vernon Coleman. Dr Marcus de Brun is one of the only Irish doctors speaking out. It seems that all HSE staff are forbidden to speak to the media but it's surely only a matter of time before some do. Surely...? I know it's important to try and keep an open mind and understand the genuine fear that some people have but the masks on the altar I do not like. I believe the truth was and still is very much nearer to the "alternative" observations that begun with questioning the whole phenomena in a reserved, analytical and reasonable way. But now that "the whole world" (in reality not at all the whole world but rather the men in charge and their surprisingly broad mass followers) is tending to be led astray, bent on going, even rushing headlong, collectively and careless further forward in the dark, the ideas of masks and widespread vaccines soon to be called the mantra new-normal and only looking like minor deviations on the fringes. With sudden covid statistics and hype measures shifting like nothing, moving all basic constructed markers and the numbers continously in the ever-changing fluid mode so that no one ever should be able to held anyone responsible for anything, nothing remains outside of the secret decisions chambers but sit back and resign to a pattern of "people divided". Same same in the entire West, not surprisingly since the Globalistic culture was already far on its nivelling way long before the last outbreaks, but no less saddening and to some almost naturally maddening, a humane and cultural tragedy engineered with emotional pressure. Then the mystifying origins of the virus, never to be investigated and put out in the open by the Globalist media monopoly. That is a real nut to crack. If it just happened to happen, and never could be bullet proof fitted into the Plandemic pattern, and if it was meaningless for any investigating journalists even following the money into high tech Big Business, pharma patents, etc as well as major Globalist politics, according to some probably even into the US election itself? And if their digital devices, number of votes changes and late arriving post etc may never be accounted for in all detail (??) (at this date no news certain to what scrutiny it will be dealt with, the level of vigilance by the so far always superstrong Legal system, or if the one person last week hastened posing as "winner" at some time really could be proved to have won by only the legal votes), then it only looks even worse dubious, how by some kind of odd coincidence the whole scene of "Liberal-Left Globalist power groups"-politics would push attempts for take over, as it seems surprisingly well prepared, the very same moment the virus got out from China. A Global disaster, if considered the most sinister even "promoted" by devilish notions about draconian lackdowns on demand, for something more close to another purpose, until the whole populace submits to N-W-O power or something in that line, is so weird a thought that it looks simply surreal. But since this year 2020 has not been very much in favour of moral and sanity, who knows what may come out by default. Maybe even a confrontation of Truth v fake, in an openly democratic contest, for the benefit of all in the longer run?
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Post by hilary on Dec 2, 2020 21:49:02 GMT
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