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Post by Andy on Jul 16, 2020 12:11:57 GMT
Why there is no alternative public narration to Covid-19 in Ireland ? Why we allowing to establish tyrany ?
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Post by assisi on Jul 16, 2020 17:00:30 GMT
Why there is no alternative public narration to Covid-19 in Ireland ? Why we allowing to establish tyrany ? There are plenty of sites online that have been putting out an alternative, see Computing Forever at www.youtube.com/watch?v=800CA4VA04gor James Corbett at www.youtube.com/c/corbettreport/videoswho has quite a few videos on Covid. But as for an alternative on the mainstream media, such as RTE or the mainstream newspapers, it isn't allowed to exist as the mainstream will only reflect the liberal establishment side of the argument, sadly.
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Post by cato on Jul 16, 2020 18:06:51 GMT
Why there is no alternative public narration to Covid-19 in Ireland ? Why we allowing to establish tyrany ? Perhaps because, like most conspiracy theories these alternatives are by and large bonkers? Meanwhile issues like the huge death tolls in nursing homes and among health care workers get swept under the carpet. Few seem to be too worried about the enormous cost of the state shutting the economy down to save? the country. The double standards in restricting ordinary people's funeral arrangements while allowing BLM protesters, sun bathing beer swilling taoiseachs to party and IRA fans to ignore the law is another issue to get mad about but I guess we can't blame that on George Soros or the illuminati . Don't get me wrong we do have a twisted media, spineless politicians and a decaying culture. Dealing with some of that is enough for any patriot.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 16, 2020 20:47:37 GMT
Perhaps because, like most conspiracy theories these alternatives are by and large bonkers? Meanwhile issues like the huge death tolls in nursing homes and among health care workers get swept under the carpet. I'm not familiar enough with the alternative theories to easily know how bonkers or not they really are. Nor can I easily judge much of anything in this deeply confusing time. BUT . . . Cato, I think your excellent points about nursing homes, health workers - also the terrible strain on health services - sorely need to be heard. I imagine they are being far too ignored by many of these alternative theorists. Also I'd welcome hearing more from you about this topic, guest Andy. Maybe join us as a member?
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Post by Andy on Jul 17, 2020 8:04:41 GMT
My wife works in nursung home. They didn't record huge deaths in this year. She got 3 tests, all negative. All staff members from her nursing home negative. There are no dead bodies on the streets,there are no large amount of funerals. Compare statistic from last year about deaths.
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Post by Séamus on Jul 17, 2020 8:52:02 GMT
Perhaps because, like most conspiracy theories these alternatives are by and large bonkers? Meanwhile issues like the huge death tolls in nursing homes and among health care workers get swept under the carpet. I'm not familiar enough with the alternative theories to easily know how bonkers or not they really are. Nor can I easily judge much of anything in this deeply confusing time. BUT . . . Cato, I think your excellent points about nursing homes, health workers - also the terrible strain on health services - sorely need to be heard. I imagine they are being far too ignored by many of these alternative theorists. Also I'd welcome hearing more from you about this topic, guest Andy. Maybe join us as a member? From the start,I found myself that the Wuhan statistics were underwhelming in comparison with China's population,and felt it was all overemphasized by the media at that stage- certainly,now,the amount that have caught and died from it worldwide is not negligible but ordinary strains of flu are also statistically frightening. The lockdown measures,which seem bizarrely similar in most countries,may look fair when living in Europe or Ireland,whose toll was comparatively high, but if you take Western Australia for a different example you have to question the sensibility of it all: 2.6 million km2- over four times the size of Texas-, 2.5 million people,i.e. over a square km each, 9 covid deaths so far, about 650 cases,mostly contracted overseas, borders closed....and still all places of worship,not to mention pubs, restaurants,gyms,cinemas,sports of any sort etc shut down until about May when limited access was permitted;the effects still lingering,both serious (over 70s and people without flu vaccination still barred from nursing homes.... possibly an ongoing policy now... Catholic residents rely mostly on extraordinary ministers and pastoral workers for Communion and these are largely over 70,all this will be greatly curtailed from now on. I know a Mercy Sister who has been told by a public hospital that she was too old to continue doing this) and also not-so-serious (my father was wanting to go to the cinema with a grandchild. The reopened local,which is a mainstream cinema,not retro or festival,was showing three new and about a dozen classic movies; besides the politically correct David Copperfield, the new films were cartoons made in South Korea and France which would usually only be shown in specialist venues.) I was told,by the gentleman's son,of a case where an Irish passport-holder working in Singapore as a professional in occupational health and safety was forced to fly to Dublin,where he had (to my knowledge) hardly lived, as part of Singapore's covid policy of expelling unnecessary foreign nationals for the sake of.... occupational health and safety!! We can be philosophical and say that we've survived it all,but the big question that I'm asking is whether, now that the government-control genie is out of the bottle,we are now to expect,and will people be conforming to, these measures every time a potential plague is discovered somewhere? Throughout history,neither Diocletian,nor Elizabeth,nor Cromwell,not Stalin could stop Catholics attending Mass. 2020 has brought something altogether different.
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Post by kj on Jul 17, 2020 10:51:57 GMT
One thing I've noticed that's annoys me about certain "conservatives" is the double standards when things like this happen.
When people obey government advice they are "sheeple", "submitting to government totalitarianism" etc etc.
When people openly disobey something the conservative approves of they are "anarchists", "a mob" etc etc.
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andy
New Member
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Covid-19
Jul 17, 2020 16:23:54 GMT
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Post by andy on Jul 17, 2020 16:23:54 GMT
One thing I've noticed that's annoys me about certain "conservatives" is the double standards when things like this happen. When people obey government advice they are "sheeple", "submitting to government totalitarianism" etc etc. When people openly disobey something the conservative approves of they are "anarchists", "a mob" etc etc.
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andy
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Post by andy on Jul 17, 2020 16:28:52 GMT
One thing I've noticed that's annoys me about certain "conservatives" is the double standards when things like this happen. When people obey government advice they are "sheeple", "submitting to government totalitarianism" etc etc. When people openly disobey something the conservative approves of they are "anarchists", "a mob" etc etc. If someone is not open for alternative narration, that means they are not critical thinking. Most Irish hates minister of health for mess in health system, same people believ that now gouverment acts in our safe ! Really ? Once again make some effort and look for number people dead in last year. Is really huge difference ? Think !!!
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Post by rogerbuck on Jul 18, 2020 0:21:56 GMT
If someone is not open for alternative narration, that means they are not critical thinking. Most Irish hates minister of health for mess in health system, same people believ that now gouverment acts in our safe ! Really ? Once again make some effort and look for number people dead in last year. Is really huge difference ? Think !!! I do get the impression that health services in Europe, anyway, are under a terrific strain that they weren't last year. But that does not mean I'm closed to "alternative narration" and am glad you are bringing these things up here. Also the things Seamus said. They are important to consider.
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Covid-19
Jul 18, 2020 5:46:30 GMT
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Post by Séamus on Jul 18, 2020 5:46:30 GMT
One thing I've noticed that's annoys me about certain "conservatives" is the double standards when things like this happen. When people obey government advice they are "sheeple", "submitting to government totalitarianism" etc etc. When people openly disobey something the conservative approves of they are "anarchists", "a mob" etc etc. Being conservative has never meant being extremist in any sense. I'd ask anyone who thinks that this stance is hypocritical to consider three questions- Q1: would you like to live in a world similar to Cormac McCarthy's THE ROAD? Q2: would you like to live in a world similar to George Orwell's 1984? Q3: If there is a negative answer to both questions, is it possible that they display signs of semi-hypocrisy also?
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Post by kj on Jul 18, 2020 9:28:08 GMT
Using two ultra-extreme fictional scenarios to try and demonstrate a point is not very effective.
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Covid-19
Jul 18, 2020 15:52:44 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 18, 2020 15:52:44 GMT
]Being conservative has never meant being extremist in any sense.
Really?
When facing down wicked ideologies like Nazism extreme measures were necessary. Conservatives among others took up arms and advocated radical socio-economic measures to defeat Hitler.
The Irish Free State government ( our most conservative ever arguably) resorted to martial law and summary executions to defeat an attempted Reppublican coup d'etat. Two examples of extremism that spring to mind.
Normally Conservatives do not resort to extreme methods I agree but certainly not "in any sense".
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Covid-19
Jul 18, 2020 16:16:23 GMT
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Post by cato on Jul 18, 2020 16:16:23 GMT
The problem with "alternative" Covid theories is that some are simple denial theories.
We have experienced huge disruption globally and yet some imply its some sort of hoax or merely a variant of the common flu.
This flu variant is highly infectious , is quite nasty to experience, and is highly dangerous for vulnerable groups who include the elderly, medics and those with respiratory problems. Like the infamous 1918 flu which killed more than the great war itself we have no idea what a potential 2nd or 3rd wave will bring. The 2nd wave in 1918 specifically attacked the youngest and healthiest let it be recalled.
Modern medical systems are very vulnerable to sudden demands on A and E systems. Italy was overwhelmed earlier this year and their doctors were deciding which patients could live and which had to be denied treatment. No doctor wants to have let patients die unnecessary. In India at present 3/4 of Covid patients are being turned away from treatment. That is horrendous.
We are only partially through this disease and we will only be able to objectively assess it once it's over and life hopefully can return to normal.
There are many questions we can raise and should about how our governments have acted to date but to minimise the enormity of Covid is misleading. We can be critical and questioning . That doesn't mean we entertain "alternative " excuses or theories. That is surrendering to another post modern conspiracy theory. Conservatives generally stick to common sense explanations and solutions.
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Post by Séamus on Jul 19, 2020 6:36:42 GMT
Using two ultra-extreme fictional scenarios to try and demonstrate a point is not very effective. I don't usually quote The Cure,but "you make me feel like I am young again... you make me feel like I am fun again". Dystopia exists for a reason- using exaggerated possibilities to get people pondering. The Gospel parables show how far-back this type of storytelling reaches. Nobody is conservative for the sake of earning the label in itself(unless we're talking about membership of political parties that use the conservative name),it should have an end,which most will tell you is about defending what's perceived as the correct order in their lives and in their society and of course that implies being aware of this being chipped away,often more than chipped,from either direction. I see no hypocrisy in that whatever.
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