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Post by rogerbuck on Oct 31, 2020 11:01:42 GMT
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Oct 31, 2020 11:38:41 GMT
She doesn't seem very different to someone like Nigel Farage. I'm interested that she seems Britain as an ally of her "Latin alliance".
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Post by rogerbuck on Oct 31, 2020 13:21:21 GMT
Just quickly for now. I don't know all Farage's positions, but she is very pro-life, anti- SS"M", anti-death penalty (which is slightly surprising given her background) and very outspoken about cultural issues like the travesty of 1968 in France and French thinking.
I imagine she is also considerably more concerned about unrestrained Capitalism than Farage, though she appears more favourable to Capitalism than many on the French Right.
I am not without certain concerns about her, though.
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Post by Tomas on Oct 31, 2020 16:00:20 GMT
Those positions mentioned in the article were among the best promising set up in many years from my view.
Basic needs acknowledged, especially welcome the emphasis on agriculture and economical freedom, and a hunch of the immoral void spreading like a cancer (or virus!) all over Europe being addressed in earnest, not by weird tanglings (plotting compromises within the New EU or Globalists´ System itself) but rather by realistic fair play and common sense.
If it actually isn´t simplistic populism it would appear to be like a long lost hope again visible on the horizon. Coming in with potential for building many interesting platforms and possibly to strengthen broad collaborations ahead. Democracy may be revived!?
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Post by cato on Oct 31, 2020 16:39:48 GMT
The article touches on contraception and abortion but doesn't make the connection with Europe's ageing and stagnating population which necessitates the importation of foreign Labour to compensate for the missing Europeans. We have had 60 odd years of sexual liberty allied with rising comfortable 2.2 children birth rates or less. Even the church never calls out the price we are paying for sexual "Choice". In many ways we are paying now for decades of emphasis on personal freedom ignoring the needs of society.
The political class is reluctant at times to see how we arrived where we are at in relation to immigration. Much of it is as a result our lifestyles encouraged by politicians and media .Even during boom periods , we in Ireland had a core of approximately 100,000 on the dole but still imported foreigners to do jobs we were not willing to do.
The Le Pen clan have come a long way from its tough 1970s far right roots but I wonder like our own Sinn Fein how much of the change is cosmetic?
I wonder why Marion choses to oppose the guillotine though. I presume there is a death penalty vote in France and it's not being catered to elsewhere. Saying you oppose it (along with everyone else) seems a little bit like pandering to people who will never support you anyway.
I don't expect any realistic move to the death penalty anywhere in Europe in the near future. All members of the EU are obliged to abolish capital punishment.
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Post by assisi on Oct 31, 2020 21:02:53 GMT
The article touches on contraception and abortion but doesn't make the connection with Europe's ageing and stagnating population which necessitates the importation of foreign Labour to compensate for the missing Europeans. We have had 60 odd years of sexual liberty allied with rising comfortable 2.2 children birth rates or less. Even the church never calls out the price we are paying for sexual "Choice". In many ways we are paying now for decades of emphasis on personal freedom ignoring the needs of society. The political class is reluctant at times to see how we arrived where we are at in relation to immigration. Much of it is as a result our lifestyles encouraged by politicians and media .Even during boom periods , we in Ireland had a core of approximately 100,000 on the dole but still imported foreigners to do jobs we were not willing to do. The Le Pen clan have come a long way from its tough 1970s far right roots but I wonder like our own Sinn Fein how much of the change is cosmetic? I wonder why Marion choses to oppose the guillotine though. I presume there is a death penalty vote in France and it's not being catered to elsewhere. Saying you oppose it (along with everyone else) seems a little bit like pandering to people who will never support you anyway. I don't expect any realistic move to the death penalty anywhere in Europe in the near future. All members of the EU are obliged to abolish capital punishment. With regard to the so called sexual revolution of the 60s, there is a fantastic opportunity to call attention to the failure of this revolution. Ageing population importing immigrants and social cohesion breaking down. More divorce, more abortion, more pornography. Sexual diseases more resistant to drugs. And perhaps most damning of all there is more of a rupture in good relationships between the sexes, more hostility than ever before. The Church should be leaping on this. But it isn't, because I think it would be seen as as illiberal and would upset the ruling classes. Interestingly Pope Francis criticised the European Union in 2014: “In many quarters, we encounter a general impression of weariness and aging, of a Europe which is now a 'grandmother', no longer fertile and vibrant. As a result, the great ideas which once inspired Europe seem to have lost their attraction, only to be replaced by the bureaucratic technicalities of its institutions,” Apparently he got a phone call from Merkel a short time after this scolding him for saying this. A couple of months later he said: "Telling the story of a woman he met in a parish in Rome several months ago who had given birth to seven children via cesarean section and was pregnant with an eighth, Francis asked: 'Does she want to leave the seven orphans?'
" 'This is to tempt God,' he said, adding later: 'That is an irresponsibility.' Catholics, the pope said, should speak of 'responsible parenthood.'
" 'How do we do this?' Francis asked. 'With dialogue. Each person with his pastor seeks how to do that responsible parenthood.'
" 'God gives you methods to be responsible,' he continued. 'Some think that — excuse the word — that in order to be good Catholics we have to be like rabbits. No.' "The language of 'rabbits' is grating coming from a Pope. And the fact that he has used a very extreme example to come to this conclusion isn't good. The vast majority of Catholic families in Europe don't have anything near 7 or 8 children. Again set side by side these 2 statements cause more confusion than clarity. |
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Post by rogerbuck on Nov 1, 2020 13:52:17 GMT
The article touches on contraception and abortion but doesn't make the connection with Europe's ageing and stagnating population which necessitates the importation of foreign Labour to compensate for the missing Europeans. We have had 60 odd years of sexual liberty allied with rising comfortable 2.2 children birth rates or less. Even the church never calls out the price we are paying for sexual "Choice". In many ways we are paying now for decades of emphasis on personal freedom ignoring the needs of society. The political class is reluctant at times to see how we arrived where we are at in relation to immigration. Much of it is as a result our lifestyles encouraged by politicians and media .Even during boom periods , we in Ireland had a core of approximately 100,000 on the dole but still imported foreigners to do jobs we were not willing to do. The Le Pen clan have come a long way from its tough 1970s far right roots but I wonder like our own Sinn Fein how much of the change is cosmetic? I wonder why Marion choses to oppose the guillotine though. I presume there is a death penalty vote in France and it's not being catered to elsewhere. Saying you oppose it (along with everyone else) seems a little bit like pandering to people who will never support you anyway. I don't expect any realistic move to the death penalty anywhere in Europe in the near future. All members of the EU are obliged to abolish capital punishment. I am struggling to understand how much MM's (apparently) far more Catholic version of the National Rally (new name for the old Front National) is "cosmetic" as you suggest, Cato. But I am open to her unusual death penalty stance being sincere. And perhaps much more. So much to say here, so little time. But I hope to draw attention to the elements in the article that are not simply about her, but reflect the Nouvelle Droite in France. |
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Post by cato on Nov 1, 2020 14:10:59 GMT
The article touches on contraception and abortion but doesn't make the connection with Europe's ageing and stagnating population which necessitates the importation of foreign Labour to compensate for the missing Europeans. We have had 60 odd years of sexual liberty allied with rising comfortable 2.2 children birth rates or less. Even the church never calls out the price we are paying for sexual "Choice". In many ways we are paying now for decades of emphasis on personal freedom ignoring the needs of society. The political class is reluctant at times to see how we arrived where we are at in relation to immigration. Much of it is as a result our lifestyles encouraged by politicians and media .Even during boom periods , we in Ireland had a core of approximately 100,000 on the dole but still imported foreigners to do jobs we were not willing to do. The Le Pen clan have come a long way from its tough 1970s far right roots but I wonder like our own Sinn Fein how much of the change is cosmetic? I wonder why Marion choses to oppose the guillotine though. I presume there is a death penalty vote in France and it's not being catered to elsewhere. Saying you oppose it (along with everyone else) seems a little bit like pandering to people who will never support you anyway. I don't expect any realistic move to the death penalty anywhere in Europe in the near future. All members of the EU are obliged to abolish capital punishment. I am struggling to understand how much MM's (apparently) far more Catholic version of the National Rally (new name for the old Front National) is "cosmetic" as you suggest, Cato. But I am open to her unusual death penalty stance being sincere. And perhaps much more. So much to say here, so little time. But I hope to draw attention to the elements in the article that are not simply about her, but reflect the Nouvelle Droite in France. I confess to not following the trajectory of the Front Nationalle as closely as I perhaps should but I do recall Jean Marie Le Pens efforts to detox his bootboy anti Semitic racist movement gradually into the mainstream. I would be sceptical of this modern incarnation of the FN just as I am sceptical of our own fascists in Sinn Fein even though many people seem to regard them as patriotic human rights activists. The French far right are a pretty unpleasant crew who had their 5 years of ruling France in the Vichy era and were prepared to plunge France into civil war and military dictatorship over Algeria in the 1960s. Many of these backed Le Pen senior. Perhaps things have moved on. I 'll read up more on them. |
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Post by rogerbuck on Nov 2, 2020 0:06:24 GMT
Plenty of agreement here, Cato! Plenty.
I am not much drawn to Marine Le Pen's rechristened NR which still suffers awful things I think - including underlying antisemitism.
I need to better clarify, if I can, why I posted that. But it was not to endorse the NR!
It was about more than MM, too. Although there is some evidence that MM's heart isn't truly in her grandfather's party. She appears - how sincerely I cannot say - to be seeking a new rapprochement/alignment with the mainstream French Right of the LR ("Les Republicans") and certain Catholics who are mysteriously beginning to come to prominence therein.
Mysteriously, I say, as these developments would have been unthinkable 10 years ago before the SS"M" demonstrations which have changed so much.
It seems as a result of those demonstrations that Catholics in both LR and NR are seeking rapprochement.
Huge, huge topic - I can't do it justice now.
But just to pedantically clarify - I am not interested in the still-antisemitic NR.
But I am interested in a new alignment of the French Right which MM seems to be working for, even while she may be struggling to extricate herself from her own roots (?). (She recently dropped the Le Pen name).
I hope to unpack more in time, one way or another.
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