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Post by Tomas on Sept 18, 2021 13:43:31 GMT
as this poll continues I will probably present a more detailed proposal, but it will take time to formulate it, and I want to see more discusion and votes first 6 out of 6 in favour is a strong tendency though.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 18, 2021 15:16:52 GMT
as this poll continues I will probably present a more detailed proposal, but it will take time to formulate it, and I want to see more discusion and votes first 6 out of 6 in favour is a strong tendency though. yes it is, though the people who voted yes are divided between the second, fourth and fifth options so far.
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Post by Antaine on Sept 19, 2021 14:39:46 GMT
As a romantic and realist, I love the idea of monarchy and nobility, but am not so sure of how it would be used practically, and not to mention the potential for abuse.
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Post by cato on Sept 19, 2021 17:11:10 GMT
As a romantic and realist, I love the idea of monarchy and nobility, but am not so sure of how it would be used practically, and not to mention the potential for abuse. Look how the current Marxist windbag and student evicting landlord and Irish head of state is adored by the masses. A monarchy would be this and worse. For those who insist a monarchy would be different ...... the last absolute ruler in Europe has described him as " a wise man". I almost 🤢 vomited. I think my Presbyterian great granny must be having a wee laugh at my expense.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 19, 2021 17:14:02 GMT
As a romantic and realist, I love the idea of monarchy and nobility, but am not so sure of how it would be used practically, and not to mention the potential for abuse. My views exactly, and why I favour a strictly ceremonial and constitutional monarch.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 19, 2021 17:38:37 GMT
one thing I have noticed and am aware of is that the restoration of Ireland's native monarchy gets brought up here; that and the restoration of the gaelic nobility are, in my view, practically connected, but theoretically separate. yet me explain this. Despite the association of nobility with monarchies, it has historically existed in republics; historical examples are: the republic of Venice, the republic of Genoa, some cantons of the old swiss confederacy, the Dutch republic, and oliver cromwell's British Commonwealth; the sole contemporary example (in the west), is San Marino. there are also 2 monarchies; namely Norway and japan, which have no nobility besides the monarch and his immediate family. i do acknowledge that both situations are oddities, just that they have existed. I do agree that in practice, the gaelic nobility, and a native monarchy, would probably be restored together, and I intend to formulate and post a more detailed proposal eventually.
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Post by cato on Sept 19, 2021 19:45:46 GMT
one thing I have noticed and am aware of is that the restoration of Ireland's native monarchy gets brought up here; that and the restoration of the gaelic nobility are, in my view, practically connected, but theoretically separate. yet me explain this. Despite the association of nobility with monarchies, it has historically existed in republics; historical examples are: the republic of Venice, the republic of Genoa, some cantons of the old swiss confederacy, the Dutch republic, and oliver cromwell's British Commonwealth; the sole contemporary example (in the west), is San Marino. there are also 2 monarchies; namely Norway and japan, which have no nobility besides the monarch and his immediate family. i do acknowledge that both situations are oddities, just that they have existed. I do agree that in practice, the gaelic nobility, and a native monarchy, would probably be restored together, and I intend to formulate and post a more detailed proposal eventually. The papacy ?
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 19, 2021 19:47:39 GMT
one thing I have noticed and am aware of is that the restoration of Ireland's native monarchy gets brought up here; that and the restoration of the gaelic nobility are, in my view, practically connected, but theoretically separate. yet me explain this. Despite the association of nobility with monarchies, it has historically existed in republics; historical examples are: the republic of Venice, the republic of Genoa, some cantons of the old swiss confederacy, the Dutch republic, and oliver cromwell's British Commonwealth; the sole contemporary example (in the west), is San Marino. there are also 2 monarchies; namely Norway and japan, which have no nobility besides the monarch and his immediate family. i do acknowledge that both situations are oddities, just that they have existed. I do agree that in practice, the gaelic nobility, and a native monarchy, would probably be restored together, and I intend to formulate and post a more detailed proposal eventually. The papacy ? oh right forgot that, the papacy is not a hereditary regime, though it is usually not classed as a republic; also, anyone who reads this and is a member is encouraged to express and opinion in the poll
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Post by cato on Sept 19, 2021 23:26:05 GMT
oh right forgot that, the papacy is not a hereditary regime, though it is usually not classed as a republic; also, anyone who reads this and is a member is encouraged to express and opinion in the poll Its an absolute monarchy. Voting on restoring an archaic pre modern order which spent most of its time attacking each other in fraticidal warfare is even more absurd than the concept of a restoration itself. Which is pretty loony too. Have a glance at the Annals of the Four Masters to see the Gaelic aristocracy in action.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 20, 2021 1:20:50 GMT
the vote is not meant to be a governing process, just a method of ascertaining opinion. it is often usefull for any governmental system to become aware of the opinions of those it governs, regardless of how much account it takes of them
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Post by Tomas on Sept 20, 2021 6:27:22 GMT
"Classes" will always be in conflict now and then, if only verbally, no matter what societal system is taken. Socialist-tainted Liberalism as we have today is lamer and less violent. But also making a world obsessed with viruses and money more than anything aspiring to honest living, and no relation to Our Lord apart from devilish blaspheme or indifference.
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Post by cato on Sept 20, 2021 10:48:04 GMT
the vote is not meant to be a governing process, just a method of ascertaining opinion. it is often usefull for any governmental system to become aware of the opinions of those it governs, regardless of how much account it takes of them Voting (and democracy) are among those things the Saxons introduced to Ireland. I thought this thought exercise intends to root all these influences out...... I use the term "Saxon" very loosely.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 20, 2021 18:06:16 GMT
am working on a concrete proposal, will post it when it is in a good enough state for others to see
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 20, 2021 19:06:07 GMT
Here is the start of a concrete proposal for the Gaelic nobility of Ireland. Anyone can disagree with this proposal or offer adjustments, and your vote on the poll should not be influenced by your views on the specific proposal in front of you. Many of these are tentative first drafts, so suggestions for improvement are welcome. These do kind of presume the restoration of Ireland’s native monarchy of course. The old Gaelic noble dynasties will be restored, and a system will be established for ennoblement of future Irish citizens. The senior heir of the last recognized ruler from each such dynasty will be given an appropriate ennoblement. Please note that those who accepted a British title or converted to Anglicanism will be passed over, they will receive no title, but in such cases, the succession will be reckoned from the closest relative who did not do that. I consider this appropriate, as those people renounced the Gaelic nobility, and played an active part in its destruction, so they will not receive anything from its restoration; but their relatives who did not will not be punished. Any gaelic nobles whose estates are still in the hands of the ango-irish will be entitled to recover those, for free, the anglo landlord’s compensation is not being killed. If anyone asks, British granted titles will not be recognized, and indeed using one will constitute criminal usurpation of the title and will lead to jail time, and those who have renounced such a title will be able to ask government to jail those who refer to them by it. Further information is coming soon on this proposed Irish nobility.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 22, 2021 14:50:38 GMT
The restoration of the old Gaelic Nobility will be a base for a broader Irish nobility, of which they will become the most senior and ancient members. This nobility will be exclusively Irish, and mostly catholic (for this purpose though, I am not particularly strict about Catholicism; simply attending catholic church on Christmas and Easter and not being a member of any other religion is sufficient); and particularly none will be Anglican, but other religious minorities will be considered and may be included, but not in excess of their percentage of the population; Irish language speakers will be represented at least in proportion to their numbers, if not overrepresented; unionists will also be wholly excluded. The point is that they Are IRISH NOBLEMEN, and that excludes all British people; the inclusion or exclusion of other ethnic minorities will be decided on a case-by-case basis (as well as if such groups have a suitable person).
Of course, right after restoration there will be an unusual burst in the creation of titles for a couple reasons. This will eventually slow down, but not stop. I also, personally, to add prestige to the restored real Irish nobles to posthumously ennoble the heroes of our struggle for independence, people like Eamon De Valera, Padrig pearse, and Michael Collins. Posthumous ennoblement is possible if unusual (Spain has done it several times, though this always results in the title immediately descending to their heir apparent according to succession laws). The reason for doing this posthumously is simple, the gaelic nobility was not restored in their lifetimes, yet their work made it possible; so why should these people miss out on it because of something as trivial as dates? also, disagreement with some parts of these proposals while agreeing with other parts is welcome. people who disagree with you on some things but not others are the most interesting people to have a conversation with
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