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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 14, 2021 2:49:21 GMT
actually, because I research laws and legal drafting as a hobby; am working on some draft documents for what the enactment of a restored native monarchy might look like, they are not done yet, and even when they are, they will be alpha versions in computer programming terms, open to revision, but the earliest form that can be considered complete, would love second pairs of eyes to look at the documents when they are done
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Sept 14, 2021 7:08:08 GMT
Do you have a map or list of the minor Kingdoms you are discussing?
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 14, 2021 14:02:11 GMT
Do you have a map or list of the minor Kingdoms you are discussing? not yet
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 14, 2021 14:56:16 GMT
if anyone has, say a county by county list of native kingdoms as they existed before the area fell under foreign controll (the exact date for that will very based on the area), then it is an ideal starting point at least
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 15, 2021 2:21:47 GMT
if anyone has, say a county by county list of native kingdoms as they existed before the area fell under foreign controll (the exact date for that will very based on the area), then it is an ideal starting point at least I know Umhaill, for a start
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 15, 2021 15:26:11 GMT
about this, a key fact hit me recently; the main obstacle supporters of restoration of the native monarchy have towards at least establishing their idea as a serious proposal is the association of monarchism with Britain; and thus foreign rule and tyranny; well, an idea that might eventually lead to a way out just hit me, and it is really obvious in hindsight, having a precedent in something the Irish republic does anyway even; if people are interested in hearing my idea for "de tainting" the perception of monarchy in Ireland.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Sept 15, 2021 17:50:34 GMT
about this, a key fact hit me recently; the main obstacle supporters of restoration of the native monarchy have towards at least establishing their idea as a serious proposal is the association of monarchism with Britain; and thus foreign rule and tyranny; well, an idea that might eventually lead to a way out just hit me, and it is really obvious in hindsight, having a precedent in something the Irish republic does anyway even; if people are interested in hearing my idea for "de tainting" the perception of monarchy in Ireland. Go ahead
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 15, 2021 18:10:53 GMT
to put it simply: autochthonous nomenclature. this may not be a phrase you are familiar with, because I made it up myself because of a lack of any concise word for the concept it describes. even though I made it up, I have used the phrase before in comments on other sites. it comes from a Greek word meaning "self root". regardless of weather or not you know the phrase, the concept, even if not the word for it, should be familiar to anyone who has so much as read the headings in the Wikipedia article on "government and politics of Ireland". autochthonous nomenclature is how the constitution of the Irish Republic gives government institutions names that are simply the Irish language word for what they are, but uses them untranslated, even in English. some examples of this convention are: Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Dáil, and Oireachtas. I will admit point blank that I love this aspect of the Irish Republic; but I will strongly make the case that you do not have to be an Irish Repubican to like this feature of the Irish Republic, it is my favorite feature of the Republic. anyway; the key point is this, a restored native monarchy should consider using this as well. Irish monarchists would even be wise to wholly jettison most of the English language terminology of monarchical government; but substitute the Irish language forms. the Irishness of a concept is reinforced by autochthonous nomenclature; in truth I think that is how our current republic established the perception that republican government is Irish; because with the autochthonous nomenclature; it is hard to talk about the concepts without acknowledging their Irishness. The Irish people have already accepted the legitimacy of autochthonous nomenclature, not only have we lived for almost 85 years under a constitution which uses it for a lot of key institutions, but institutions too unimportant to mention in the constitution take Irish language names sometimes, even in English, using the constitution’s practices as a precedent. This practice is so accepted today that even instututions that do not have official names given that way will sometimes use the irish language version of their names as nicknames. I propose using this same process. I think I can go so far so as to joke that I am against a king but for a Rí. what do you think of this idea? I do not claim it is a miracle cure, but I think it is the first step out of any British connotations monarchism might have, and will be one of the most effective individual steps.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 15, 2021 21:45:56 GMT
s. The Irish people have already accepted the legitimacy of autochthonous nomenclature, not only have we lived for almost 85 years under a constitution which uses it for a lot of key institutions, but institutions too unimportant to mention in the constitution take Irish language names sometimes, even in English, using the constitution’s practices as a precedent. This practice is so accepted today that even instututions that do not have official names given that way will sometimes use the irish language version of their names as nicknames. My favourite was Bórd na 'Rona for NPHET.
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Post by Séamus on Sept 16, 2021 2:24:08 GMT
to put it simply: autochthonous nomenclature. this may not be a phrase you are familiar with, because I made it up myself because of a lack of any concise word for the concept it describes. even though I made it up, I have used the phrase before in comments on other sites. it comes from a Greek word meaning "self root". regardless of weather or not you know the phrase, the concept, even if not the word for it, should be familiar to anyone who has so much as read the headings in the Wikipedia article on "government and politics of Ireland". autochthonous nomenclature is how the constitution of the Irish Republic gives government institutions names that are simply the Irish language word for what they are, but uses them untranslated, even in English. some examples of this convention are: Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Dáil, and Oireachtas. I will admit point blank that I love this aspect of the Irish Republic; but I will strongly make the case that you do not have to be an Irish Repubican to like this feature of the Irish Republic, it is my favorite feature of the Republic. anyway; the key point is this, a restored native monarchy should consider using this as well. Irish monarchists would even be wise to wholly jettison most of the English language terminology of monarchical government;...etc.... I suppose it's strange that,apart from designation of the residence, the president is more often 'the president', despite this being the more cultural role. How exactly would these royal families be traced?
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 16, 2021 3:12:41 GMT
to put it simply: autochthonous nomenclature. this may not be a phrase you are familiar with, because I made it up myself because of a lack of any concise word for the concept it describes. even though I made it up, I have used the phrase before in comments on other sites. it comes from a Greek word meaning "self root". regardless of weather or not you know the phrase, the concept, even if not the word for it, should be familiar to anyone who has so much as read the headings in the Wikipedia article on "government and politics of Ireland". autochthonous nomenclature is how the constitution of the Irish Republic gives government institutions names that are simply the Irish language word for what they are, but uses them untranslated, even in English. some examples of this convention are: Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Dáil, and Oireachtas. I will admit point blank that I love this aspect of the Irish Republic; but I will strongly make the case that you do not have to be an Irish Repubican to like this feature of the Irish Republic, it is my favorite feature of the Republic. anyway; the key point is this, a restored native monarchy should consider using this as well. Irish monarchists would even be wise to wholly jettison most of the English language terminology of monarchical government;...etc.... I suppose it's strange that,apart from designation of the residence, the president is more often 'the president', despite this being the more cultural role. How exactly would these royal families be traced? about the designation of the president of the Irish republic; while the office's formal name is indeed oddly in English; aside from the official residence; the position is sometimes refered to as "an Uachtarán"; this have even happened in the proceedings of the Oireachtas multiple times; so this is a good example of the nickname part actually; my suggestien is that Irish monarchists adopt similar practices; for instance, there might be no "peerage", "lords" or "nobility", but instead "uasal"; similarly no "princes", but instead "flaith"; are you starting to get the paterns?
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 16, 2021 16:22:50 GMT
I am a huge proponent of Autochthonous Nomenclature; it is actually one of the Irish republic's constitution's most notable innovations (and without a doubt, THE essential feature of it's style). there are other constitutions that do this now of course, not with Irish but with their own native languages, (even better) encompassing countries such as: India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bhutan, Poland, Samoa, and Kiribati; among others. this convention has the unusual property that it does not stop producing unique results as more countries do it. as a tangent it produces the amusing linguistic quirk that the examples from the Irish constitution are often considered common nouns in Irish, but proper nouns in English. When you engage in Autochthonous Nomenclature you get to have terminology which is unique yet descriptive. this practice comes across as exotic and radical from an outside perspective, but highly traditional from a local perspective. Autochthonous Nomenclature is not inherently republican, despite being an established feature of Irish republican government. not all republics have Autochthonous Nomenclature, and not all countries with Autochthonous Nomenclature are republics. some monarchies do that, Malaysia being the one with the most untranslated terms from their own language in the English version of their constitution. in fact when it comes to monarchies with Autochthonous Nomenclature, I was gonna say malaysia is king, but I think it's more acurate to say it's Yang di-Pertuan Agong. given all this, I think a Gaelic monarchy ought to retain this custom, and also think it would help the cause of restoration to be clear unambiguous, and in everyone's face about it. I did inquire about it in the comments section on one (now inactive) blog arguing for a gaelic monarchy about this; and his reply to my question about if he would keep this custom was one of my favorite internet quotes: "Yes I would for as long as English was the common language and even longer for when the trading classes retain English for the sake of international trade after Gaelige has been reconstituted as the language spoken in the street. I am a traditionalist but I am no enemy of innovation or new conventions particularly not one such as this which enhances rather than detracts from tradition. There is no reason a Gaelic monarchy wouldn't retain this convention especially since a Gaelic monarchy would have need of it since by its nature, it will be introducing a whole host of native things that have no applicable English word, even if it did not go so far as to reintroduce the clan system in some manner." I think this not just a thing it would be nice for Irish monarchism to keep, but the way we start to shed any British connotations it might have.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 16, 2021 17:38:24 GMT
I am a huge proponent of Autochthonous Nomenclature; it is actually one of the Irish republic's constitution's most notable innovations (and without a doubt, THE essential feature of it's style). there are other constitutions that do this now of course, not with Irish but with their own native languages, (even better) encompassing countries such as: India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bhutan, Poland, Samoa, and Kiribati; among others. this convention has the unusual property that it does not stop producing unique results as more countries do it. as a tangent it produces the amusing linguistic quirk that the examples from the Irish constitution are often considered common nouns in Irish, but proper nouns in English. When you engage in Autochthonous Nomenclature you get to have terminology which is unique yet descriptive. this practice comes across as exotic and radical from an outside perspective, but highly traditional from a local perspective. Autochthonous Nomenclature is not inherently republican, despite being an established feature of Irish republican government. not all republics have Autochthonous Nomenclature, and not all countries with Autochthonous Nomenclature are republics. some monarchies do that, Malaysia being the one with the most untranslated terms from their own language in the English version of their constitution. in fact when it comes to monarchies with Autochthonous Nomenclature, I was gonna say malaysia is king, but I think it's more acurate to say it's Yang di-Pertuan Agong. given all this, I think a Gaelic monarchy ought to retain this custom, and also think it would help the cause of restoration to be clear unambiguous, and in everyone's face about it. I did inquire about it in the comments section on one (now inactive) blog arguing for a gaelic monarchy about this; and his reply to my question about if he would keep this custom was one of my favorite internet quotes: "Yes I would for as long as English was the common language and even longer for when the trading classes retain English for the sake of international trade after Gaelige has been reconstituted as the language spoken in the street. I am a traditionalist but I am no enemy of innovation or new conventions particularly not one such as this which enhances rather than detracts from tradition. There is no reason a Gaelic monarchy wouldn't retain this convention especially since a Gaelic monarchy would have need of it since by its nature, it will be introducing a whole host of native things that have no applicable English word, even if it did not go so far as to reintroduce the clan system in some manner." I think this not just a thing it would be nice for Irish monarchism to keep, but the way we start to shed any British connotations it might have. Fascinating ideas, Connacht. I like these ideas very much. Could you perhaps include more line breaks? A solid block of texts is hard on the eye.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 16, 2021 19:26:31 GMT
I am a huge proponent of Autochthonous Nomenclature; it is actually one of the Irish republic's constitution's most notable innovations (and without a doubt, THE essential feature of it's style). there are other constitutions that do this now of course, not with Irish but with their own native languages, (even better) encompassing countries such as: India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Bhutan, Poland, Samoa, and Kiribati; among others. this convention has the unusual property that it does not stop producing unique results as more countries do it. as a tangent it produces the amusing linguistic quirk that the examples from the Irish constitution are often considered common nouns in Irish, but proper nouns in English. When you engage in Autochthonous Nomenclature you get to have terminology which is unique yet descriptive. this practice comes across as exotic and radical from an outside perspective, but highly traditional from a local perspective. Autochthonous Nomenclature is not inherently republican, despite being an established feature of Irish republican government. not all republics have Autochthonous Nomenclature, and not all countries with Autochthonous Nomenclature are republics. some monarchies do that, Malaysia being the one with the most untranslated terms from their own language in the English version of their constitution. in fact when it comes to monarchies with Autochthonous Nomenclature, I was gonna say malaysia is king, but I think it's more acurate to say it's Yang di-Pertuan Agong. given all this, I think a Gaelic monarchy ought to retain this custom, and also think it would help the cause of restoration to be clear unambiguous, and in everyone's face about it. I did inquire about it in the comments section on one (now inactive) blog arguing for a gaelic monarchy about this; and his reply to my question about if he would keep this custom was one of my favorite internet quotes: "Yes I would for as long as English was the common language and even longer for when the trading classes retain English for the sake of international trade after Gaelige has been reconstituted as the language spoken in the street. I am a traditionalist but I am no enemy of innovation or new conventions particularly not one such as this which enhances rather than detracts from tradition. There is no reason a Gaelic monarchy wouldn't retain this convention especially since a Gaelic monarchy would have need of it since by its nature, it will be introducing a whole host of native things that have no applicable English word, even if it did not go so far as to reintroduce the clan system in some manner." I think this not just a thing it would be nice for Irish monarchism to keep, but the way we start to shed any British connotations it might have. Fascinating ideas, Connacht. I like these ideas very much. Could you perhaps include more line breaks? A solid block of texts is hard on the eye. sure I could. I sometimes forget to put paragraph breaks because some of the sites I regularly used for online communication do not have that function, and on many of those sites, the enter key sends the message. recommendations for small improvements are always appreciated. (having a break after each sentence here is meant to be a joke to demonstrate that I am responding to that recommendation, future posts should have some paragraph breaks, but not one every sentence) and thanks on the ideas front. I have actually researched some of the terms, and will continue to do so; so I have some proposals on how a Gaelic Monarchy might use Autochthonous Nomenclature; of course, if anyone rejects any one of those proposals because they have a different Irish language word they would prefer to use, I not only do not have any problem with that; but I am by no means beyond persuasion in changing my own idea to that word if you make a convincing case for your own word. I do think the only existing examples of Autochthonous Nomenclature that should ever be disturbed is those that refer to institutions that in any particular case, are being abolished.
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Post by connacht4096 on Sept 17, 2021 13:21:59 GMT
Fascinating ideas, Connacht. I like these ideas very much. Could you perhaps include more line breaks? A solid block of texts is hard on the eye. sure I could. I sometimes forget to put paragraph breaks because some of the sites I regularly used for online communication do not have that function, and on many of those sites, the enter key sends the message. recommendations for small improvements are always appreciated. (having a break after each sentence here is meant to be a joke to demonstrate that I am responding to that recommendation, future posts should have some paragraph breaks, but not one every sentence) and thanks on the ideas front. I have actually researched some of the terms, and will continue to do so; so I have some proposals on how a Gaelic Monarchy might use Autochthonous Nomenclature; of course, if anyone rejects any one of those proposals because they have a different Irish language word they would prefer to use, I not only do not have any problem with that; but I am by no means beyond persuasion in changing my own idea to that word if you make a convincing case for your own word. I do think the only existing examples of Autochthonous Nomenclature that should ever be disturbed is those that refer to institutions that in any particular case, are being abolished. and continuing on that point I am always open to people suggesting Irish words in the department of Autochthonous Nomenclature. I have no problem with digging up obscure or long defunct Irish words from any period of history; the word "Taoiseach" was somewhat obscure in Irish, and almost wholly unknown in English, until the 1937 constitution dug it up again and repurposed it, nowadays you can even generally tell an English language reporter is foreign when based on him or her not being able to pronounce it correctly; so I think a Gaelic Monarchy can and should feel free to source whatever Irish words it feels like to turn into proper nouns in English for the purposes of Autochthonous Nomenclature. I am volunteering myself to both be a researcher on this, and a central compiler of other's ideas.
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