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Post by cato on Nov 17, 2017 21:11:59 GMT
I have been thinking of the conservative relationship (if any ) with melancholy. The historian Johan Huizinga referred to " at the end of the middle ages a sombre melancholy weighs apon people's souls". It seems we are living in a time of breakdown of tradition and crisis in western civilisation. The current serious crisis in catholicism is unique in church history.
A large part of the conservative psyche is the belief we have as a society lost something valuable and that our age is one of decline and loss. It is easy to become a naysayer and to lose all hope. Is there a link between the conservative mind and depression?
Churchill was renowned for his struggles with the Black Dog of depression. There are undoubtedly other examples.Is a pessimistic outlook bad for your sanity?
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Post by kj on Nov 17, 2017 21:54:23 GMT
Depressive realism is a topic that has been getting more attention lately.
By definition a Conservative is always fighting a losing battle - we live in a Fallen, entropic world. Everything slips away, tends towards decline.
And we seem to be heading into the most soulless, plastic and potentially brutal era of human culture yet.
I'd say if you're not a pessimist, you're not looking hard enough!
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 17, 2017 23:25:53 GMT
This is such a big subject, and one I've spent a lot of time thinking about. I could write volumes on it. But don't worry, I'm not going to...
The funny thing is that, in some ways, conservatives are more optimistic. We generally believe, for instance, that institutions such as the family, marriage, the nation, and so forth, are not simple rationalizations of power. I think Chesterton once said that Christians believe we live in a bad world but a good universe.
And yet it's true that conservatives tend to have a melancholic disposition-- certainly I do.
I guess liberals/leftists are more optimistic when it comes to plans of human improvement, while conservatives are more optimistic (or at least, less cynical) about "actually existing" institutions.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 17, 2017 23:27:58 GMT
I have been thinking of the conservative relationship (if any ) with melancholy. The historian Johan Huizinga referred to " at the end of the middle ages a sombre melancholy weighs apon people's souls". It seems we are living in a time of breakdown of tradition and crisis in western civilisation. The current serious crisis in catholicism is unique in church history. A large part of the conservative psyche is the belief we have as a society lost something valuable and that our age is one of decline and loss. It is easy to become a naysayer and to lose all hope. Is there a link between the conservative mind and depression? Churchill was renowned for his struggles with the Black Dog of depression. There are undoubtedly other examples.Is a pessimistic outlook bad for your sanity? Tolkien is another example-- he certainly had a dark view of human history and struggled with depression all his life. Philip Larkin as well.
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Post by Johnson of Beastrider on Nov 27, 2017 17:38:51 GMT
Someone wrote that prior to the Great War they'd been incapable of believing that the collapse of the Roman Empire could ever happen. As Hegel said:
`Philosophy, as the thought of the world, does not appear until reality has completed its formative process, and made itself ready. History thus corroborates the teaching of the conception that only in the maturity of reality does the ideal appear as counterpart to the real, apprehends the real world in its substance, and shapes it into an intellectual kingdom. When philosophy paints its grey in grey, one form of life has become old, and by means of grey it cannot be rejuvenated, but only known. The owl of Minerva spreads its wings at dusk.`
I suppose genuinely confident cultures are incapable of knowing that decline is even possible. We're so pessimistic because we know on some level that western civilisation is finished and that we stand at the very end.
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Post by cato on Dec 4, 2017 20:08:39 GMT
This is such a big subject, and one I've spent a lot of time thinking about. I could write volumes on it. But don't worry, I'm not going to... The funny thing is that, in some ways, conservatives are more optimistic. We generally believe, for instance, that institutions such as the family, marriage, the nation, and so forth, are not simple rationalizations of power. I think Chesterton once said that Christians believe we live in a bad world but a good universe. And yet it's true that conservatives tend to have a melancholic disposition-- certainly I do. I guess liberals/leftists are more optimistic when it comes to plans of human improvement, while conservatives are more optimistic (or at least, less cynical) about "actually existing" institutions. I wonder do conservatives who are religious believers have an advantage over non believing conservatives? After all it's part of christian theology that there will be suffering loss and earthly decline to be followed by Christ's return in glory to judge humanity. Secular conservatives don't have that vision of hope. Pope Benedict advised non believers who are concerned with the collapse of the west to act as if the faith were true. The english conservative writer and atheist Douglas Murray has referred to this advice in his book The Strange Death of Europe. It must be exceedingly difficult to maintain a sense of hope as a conservative without some sense of religious faith. It's hard enough as a believer.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Dec 4, 2017 20:49:15 GMT
My guess would be "yes", on the whole.
Certainly my worldview was much darker as an unbeliever.
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Post by cato on Sept 5, 2019 18:33:21 GMT
Our counter intelligence unit indicates they come in Peace and wish to attract new members by kindly offering to redesign the website.
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Post by Antaine on Nov 19, 2019 22:38:56 GMT
Great to see the female members getting involved.
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Post by cato on Nov 19, 2019 23:49:42 GMT
Great to see the female members getting involved. Antaine has been awarded the 2019 Sexist of the year prize. Free cleaning for the year.
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Post by cato on Jul 30, 2020 16:27:46 GMT
This post regularly attracts spam advertising viagra products which I just as regularly delete. It's interesting that that product is regarded as a cure for melancholia. Or maybe it's a cure for Conservatism?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 30, 2020 18:48:58 GMT
I have personally not found that I am any less conservative or melancholic now, than I was in my unmarried and therefore celibate years. Nor have I found myself any less exercised by social and cultural decline-- despite the cheap shot of "you need a girlfriend" to anyone who expresses concern about such things.
In fact I have very recently been feeling considerable melancholia, perhaps even depression, at the sheer soullessness of Ireland today. Was it for this? Perhaps the only time I feel relieved of this is when I pass by the GPO on Saturdays and see the various groups pressing leaflets into people's hands. I don't even particularly care what they are advocating. Simply the fact that they are raising their horizons beyond the vapid consumerism that seems to satisfy most of our peers is comforting.
I'm sorry if this sounds bitter, but it really is getting me down.
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Post by kj on Jul 30, 2020 20:36:10 GMT
Sorry to hear that, Maolsheachlann. However, I must admit that while not wanting you depressed, I find a certain vindication or shall we say confirmation of my own suspicions, as someone watching from afar who hasn't been home in two years or not lived there in over nine. I was concerned my negative views were derived solely from media outlets that irritate me. I could be wrong but I get a sense of smug self-satisfaction coming from home and I struggle to see why that might be the case. Last time I was in Cork I noticed the ever-increasing homelessness that was genuinely disturbing, and fearing that such a fate could await myself were I to return given the ever increasing rents etc. It seems the country is determined to advertise itself as the most 'woke' place in the world, desperate for approval and praise from abroad. Where does that neediness come from? When Europe was Catholic we had to be the most Catholic country in the world; now we want to be the most 'woke'. I suppose if America or Europe went far-right we'd be rushing to set up The Irish Nazi Party. I suppose as well for Irish people of a certain age the past twelve months have seen the passing of men such as Gay Byrne and Jack Charlton that seems to signify the death of a certain era. And if I see one more article about "Normal People" my head may explode
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Post by Mary on Jul 30, 2020 21:42:46 GMT
I can identify with what both of you write. I am one of those ‘of a certain age’ and feel the era I lived in is slipping away. I feel I live in an alien culture. Sorry you feel so melancholic Maolsheachlann, feel the same myself on a regular basis.
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