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Post by Séamus on Aug 21, 2019 23:39:42 GMT
Pell received a negative verdict from a majority of the 3 man court panel that judged his appeal. The minority judge highlighted problems with the evidence of the sole prosecution witness but the other two judges disagreed. Had one of them shared these doubts Pell would be free today . I was greatly disturbed by the news from Australia last night. Either Pell is the victim of an hysterical anti catholic witch hunt or he is a malicious risk taker who has abused the innocent and betrayed his flock and his many supporters all over the world. Either prospect is appalling. He still has one final appeal. Should that fail Pope Francis is faced with a terrible delemma about what to do with Cardinal Pell in church law. The High Court in Canberra may be vastly different as it's out of the Victorian state system and out of the Melbourne clique. But I'm not sure who decides whether this takes place,the Canberra High Court itself or the Victorian judiciary. One would imagine that yesterday's decision-making was methodically made,but there is also a background to it- the state government,headed by a pro-choice Sunday mass going premier, is currently attempting to legislate against the confessional seal(having already brought out physcian-assisted-suicide this year) The three judges apparently did examine the vestments,but I thought that the female judge's mention of 'robes' was extremely unprofessional and dismissive,as I'm sure they were given a full account of the proper names of each garment.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 22, 2019 9:36:08 GMT
Pell received a negative verdict from a majority of the 3 man court panel that judged his appeal. The minority judge highlighted problems with the evidence of the sole prosecution witness but the other two judges disagreed. Had one of them shared these doubts Pell would be free today . I was greatly disturbed by the news from Australia last night. Either Pell is the victim of an hysterical anti catholic witch hunt or he is a malicious risk taker who has abused the innocent and betrayed his flock and his many supporters all over the world. Either prospect is appalling. He still has one final appeal. Should that fail Pope Francis is faced with a terrible delemma about what to do with Cardinal Pell in church law. The High Court in Canberra may be vastly different as it's out of the Victorian state system and out of the Melbourne clique. But I'm not sure who decides whether this takes place,the Canberra High Court itself or the Victorian judiciary. One would imagine that yesterday's decision-making was methodically made,but there is also a background to it- the state government,headed by a pro-choice Sunday mass going premier, is currently attempting to legislate against the confessional seal(having already brought out physcian-assisted-suicide this year) The three judges apparently did examine the vestments,but I thought that the female judge's mention of 'robes' was extremely unprofessional and dismissive,as I'm sure they were given a full account of the proper names of each garment. I always thought the argument regarding the vestments seemed a bit shaky. To say something is difficult is not to say it's impossible. However, it seems appalling that he is being condemned on the testimony of one witness, whose credibility is highly questionable. I still believe him to be innocent, although it's impossible to be certain.
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Post by Tomas on Aug 23, 2019 12:12:21 GMT
The High Court in Canberra may be vastly different as it's out of the Victorian state system and out of the Melbourne clique. But I'm not sure who decides whether this takes place,the Canberra High Court itself or the Victorian judiciary. One would imagine that yesterday's decision-making was methodically made,but there is also a background to it- the state government,headed by a pro-choice Sunday mass going premier, is currently attempting to legislate against the confessional seal(having already brought out physcian-assisted-suicide this year) The three judges apparently did examine the vestments,but I thought that the female judge's mention of 'robes' was extremely unprofessional and dismissive,as I'm sure they were given a full account of the proper names of each garment. I always thought the argument regarding the vestments seemed a bit shaky. To say something is difficult is not to say it's impossible. However, it seems appalling that he is being condemned on the testimony of one witness, whose credibility is highly questionable. I still believe him to be innocent, although it's impossible to be certain. Of course we can never be 100 percent bullet proof CERTAIN but... I feel much awkward with this the most common reservation in progress, the one that "we cannot know" or "it´s impossible to know", simply because it is really the ONLY thing there is left to say - after making use of every effort of reason possible, from any outsider in any remotely similar matter whatsoever! It doesn´t say other than more or less "we can not know anything about anything". Since everything indicates the most major fake scandal in contemporary church history, we could perhaps rather say "there were no proofs for this punishment, and even though we hardly can be absolutely certain of pretty much anything in any matter whatsoever - who could ever claim to KNOW exactly every single detail of action in what anyone else has done in every given moment during a period like the last 30 years!?? - there is nothing at all that indicates that the Cardinal is less than a falsely convicted victim of a flawed and almost campaign-like process".
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Post by Stephen on Aug 28, 2019 10:03:23 GMT
Very sad to see this show trial continue.
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Post by cato on Aug 28, 2019 13:24:42 GMT
Very sad to see this show trial continue. Cardinal Pell has exercised his right to appeal the most recent decision. If that fails he may die in jail.He has been in solitary confinement since his conviction. Should that fail there will probably be a (secret) canonical trial. Will they convict Pell on the same evidence? If they do there will be uproar in the church if Pell is laicised. If he is judged innocent by a church court there will be outrage in secular Australia. One trial many are dreading.
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Post by Stephen on Aug 28, 2019 13:58:16 GMT
What is the reason he is in solidarity confinement?
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Post by cato on Aug 28, 2019 22:07:50 GMT
What is the reason he is in solidarity confinement? I believe it is for his own protection given the high passions this case has caused. I wonder is it excessive as every high profile criminal does not get this treatment to the best of my knowledge?
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Post by Séamus on Aug 29, 2019 13:24:01 GMT
What is the reason he is in solidarity confinement? It would be normal policy for anyone convicted of paedophilia in most Australian states,certain people are usually kept in protected areas
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Post by cato on Aug 29, 2019 13:33:04 GMT
What is the reason he is in solidarity confinement? It would be normal policy for anyone convicted of paedophilia in most Australian states,certain people are usually kept in protected areas In Ireland convicted sex offenders are normally kept together in Arbour HIll. I don't know if sex offenders attack each other to any greater extent than "ordinary decent criminals." Ironically Arbour Hill jail overlooks the graves of the executed 1916 leaders. The jail also got the nickname Little Vatican in the 1990s due to an influx of high profile clerical abusers.
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Post by cato on Apr 7, 2020 0:34:13 GMT
The BBC has just reported that Cardinal George Pell's conviction for child sexual abuse has been overturned by Australian courts.
He has served 3 years in jail and will be released immediately. Great to see him finally vindicated .
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 7, 2020 9:04:04 GMT
The BBC has just reported that Cardinal George Pell's conviction for child sexual abuse has been overturned by Australian courts. He has served 3 years in jail and will be released immediately. Great to see him finally vindicated . Wonderful news and almost ignored by the media here and in the UK. Deo gratias.
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Post by cato on Apr 7, 2020 14:16:41 GMT
The BBC has just reported that Cardinal George Pell's conviction for child sexual abuse has been overturned by Australian courts. He has served 3 years in jail and will be released immediately. Great to see him finally vindicated . Wonderful news and almost ignored by the media here and in the UK. Deo gratias. Yes Maolsheachlann the media are rather underwhelming in their response to this. They seem unwilling to believe any catholic bishop could be innocent of these charges. Some on line comments say he should still be in jail for the sins of guilty clergy. Scapegoating did not end in first century Palestine. The media themselves have abused their power in this case. We, closer to home , have seen prominent cases in RTE and the BBC in recent years where they have had sex abusers in paid positions for years and where they also falsely accused others publically of terrible deeds.
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Post by assisi on Apr 7, 2020 15:49:06 GMT
Great news! At 78 years of age he's had many of his twilight years stolen from him. I hope he gets to enjoy what years he has left.
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Post by cato on Apr 7, 2020 17:43:25 GMT
RTE gave this story literally around 30 seconds into the six one news 35 minutes into the programme . Blink and you would have missed it. The media doesn't like dwelling on certain stories that don't fit into its world view.
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Post by Séamus on Apr 8, 2020 0:16:54 GMT
The BBC has just reported that Cardinal George Pell's conviction for child sexual abuse has been overturned by Australian courts. He has served 3 years in jail and will be released immediately. Great to see him finally vindicated . Wonderful news and almost ignored by the media here and in the UK. Deo gratias. Francis' tweet has been widely interpreted as exoneration also. It's frightening to wonder whether these convictions happen often to persons with less notoriety and less fanbase. 'Three years' would have included home detentions during the earlier hearings,certainly enough to make him a rich man if he goes that direction. The High Court decision seems to have been unanimous,all seven judges. Of course His Eminence has just walked into a world of a different type of incarceration,Melbourne being one of the hardest places to live at the moment. No protests or riots allowed of course,but a lot of people giving opinions via technology. I noticed that the ones that made news were outraged in a general way- "this priest did this to me"..."these Brothers drove someone to suicide"...."my son"..."my daughter"... No actual interest,unlike the High Court judges, in the fundamental issue- whether THIS ACTUAL case was likely to have occurred. Pell's first free night was spent in the Kew Carmel,whose chapel,a fairly public space from what I've heard,is officially the national shrine of BVM of Mt.Carmel. Although of traditional lifestyle, instead of the usual altar-breads these nuns started supporting themselves years ago by manufacturing the Monastique® perfume/talc/eau de cologne. Decades ago the men's products were named 'Cardinal'. It's also worth saying that it was appropriate that the Canberra hearings took place near St Patrick's Day,as one of his achievements as archbishop of Melbourne was reportedly gathering all students and staff in Catholic education in Australia's largest stadium for St Patrick's Day mass in the 2000 Jubilee.
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