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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 22, 2021 11:37:41 GMT
In any democracy, in any society, the wealthy are going to have a disproportionate influence. How would you counter this? It's really up to the people to think for themselves. You can't get fairer than a man alone in a polling booth. I have no problem with an Elite or Aristocracy and Clericalacy (probably not a word) as long as they follow a moral order. What do you do when they don't? There's no guarantee that a democracy will be a moral society. But things can become so much worse in a non-democratic society.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Jul 22, 2021 12:10:59 GMT
I have no problem with an Elite or Aristocracy and Clericalacy (probably not a word) as long as they follow a moral order. What do you do when they don't? There's no guarantee that a democracy will be a moral society. But things can become so much worse in a non-democratic society. The same as you do in a so-called democracy. Why do you think they become so much worse in a non-democratic society. The 20th century is full of horrific democracy's. Who dropped a nuclear bomb on two civilian cities? Who liked straight arms Salutes and Occultism?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 22, 2021 12:56:39 GMT
What do you do when they don't? There's no guarantee that a democracy will be a moral society. But things can become so much worse in a non-democratic society. The same as you do in a so-called democracy. Why do you think they become so much worse in a non-democratic society. The 20th century is full of horrific democracy's. Who dropped a nuclear bomb on two civilian cities? Who liked straight arms Salutes and Occultism? Although I disagree with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki I can see the argument in favour of the decision, that the prolongation of the war and a land invasion of Japan would be worse. The barbarities committed by totalitarian regimes, such as the Holocaust and the Great Purge of Stalin, can't be defended by any argument. The War of Independence in Ireland is a good example of the relative humanity of democracies. The Irish very deliberately fought a propaganda war to turn English public opinion against British reprisals, and succeeded in this. I'm not clear whether you are opposed to democracy in itself or against our version of democracy. Rule by a clique or an individual is a terrible gamble. I'd rather take my chances with Joe Schmo.
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2021 17:41:10 GMT
That infamous imperialist, racist and as we saw on a previous post fully signed up Free Mason Winston Churchill also pointed out how dreadful democracy was. Except for every other system which generally is much worse. Politically conservatives are pragmatists well aware of the fallen nature of mankind.
A good democracy does depend on a strong civic culture and a common religious tradition. I don't need to add we don't have those assets at present.
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2021 17:45:46 GMT
I recall people scoffing at the idea of freedom in the West and questioning its value at various times.
Given the experience in the last two years of losing many civil and religious liberties so cheaply maybe we now see why our ancestors made such a fuss about freedom and independence.
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Post by kj on Jul 24, 2021 14:54:15 GMT
Fine Gael's Eoghan Murphy has now gone to his reward-- i.e., a position in a globalist human rights organization.
Maolsheachlann, I just wanted to say that that's one of the wittiest, funniest lines I've ever read. A genuine "laugh out loud" moment for me:-)
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 24, 2021 15:21:41 GMT
Fine Gael's Eoghan Murphy has now gone to his reward-- i.e., a position in a globalist human rights organization. Thank you!! 😊 Maolsheachlann, I just wanted to say that that's one of the wittiest, funniest lines I've ever read. A genuine "laugh out loud" moment for me:-)
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Post by Starlight on Jul 25, 2021 14:31:24 GMT
I saw a video of Dolores Cahill getting up into Gardaí faces at the count centre, there was another woman with a strong American accent there too. They both came across as unhinged and foolish. Completely discredited themselves for me, importing corrosive US style rhetoric and substituting shouting for rational discourse.
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Post by Stephen on Jul 27, 2021 10:44:54 GMT
I saw a video of Dolores Cahill getting up into Gardaí faces at the count centre, there was another woman with a strong American accent there too. They both came across as unhinged and foolish. Completely discredited themselves for me, importing corrosive US style rhetoric and substituting shouting for rational discourse. Can be very off-putting for the vast majority of on looker.
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Post by Ciara Murphy Kelly on Sept 23, 2021 15:41:41 GMT
Dublin Bay South does not endorse hate!
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 23, 2021 15:55:10 GMT
Dublin Bay South does not endorse hate! Ciara, this forum is very open to thoughtful and friendly discussion with people of all kinds, including liberals. But if you're just trying to provoke and score points, and bring an attitude of hostility and (ironically) hatred, you'll get the boot. It's a waste of everybody's time.
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Post by Ciara Murphy Kelly on Sept 23, 2021 15:58:31 GMT
Dublin Bay South does not endorse hate! Ciara, this forum is very open to thoughtful and friendly discussion with people of all kinds, including liberals. But if you're just trying to provoke and score points, and bring an attitude of hostility and (ironically) hatred, you'll get the boot. It's a waste of everybody's time. Do what you must. I'm just commenting what I feel.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 23, 2021 16:02:45 GMT
Ciara, this forum is very open to thoughtful and friendly discussion with people of all kinds, including liberals. But if you're just trying to provoke and score points, and bring an attitude of hostility and (ironically) hatred, you'll get the boot. It's a waste of everybody's time. Do what you must. I'm just commenting what I feel. Well, seriously, the invitation is there. Discuss things with us in a civil and friendly manner, without compromising your beliefs, and I think you'll find we're not hateful. A liberal perspective is welcome. God bless.
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Post by Ciara Murphy Kelly on Sept 23, 2021 16:05:06 GMT
I believe in civil liberty and equality with support for social justice and a mixed economy.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 24, 2021 11:02:19 GMT
I believe in civil liberty and equality with support for social justice and a mixed economy. I believe in all those things, too, although I suspect our interpretations might be different in many cases. I think the most important forms of equality are equality under the law and equality of opportunity. If you strive to achieve perfect equality you get into the realm of social engineering and trampling on peoples' basic freedom. People have different aptitudes, capacities and priorities and that has to be respected.
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