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Post by kj on Jul 14, 2023 10:22:58 GMT
For anyone who wondered what's happened to O'Doherty, it seems she has gone full anti-semite. I stumbled across E Michael Jones's Bitchute channel and there she was on nearly every single video show with Jones holding forth on the Jewish this, the Jewish that and the Jewish other thing. One of her more recent ones is "The creeping Jewish influence in Ireland". I wonder what John Waters thinks of it? I won't provide a link as I don't want to be causing any internet issues, but it's easy to find if you google it.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 14, 2023 14:44:10 GMT
Yes, I read a copy of her "Irish Light" newspaper and there was a whole double-spread in which the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was treated as a factual document.
It's so sadly predictable that the right swerve into this tiresome and clichéd anti-semitism all the time.
John Waters has been saying some nutty things himself. This is a quotation that he chose to use as a preface to his latest Substack article: "If there’s gonna be fighting, we’re going to have to stand up. It doesn’t matter what’s “right” or “wrong”. This idea that we can knock down statues, and then stand around and allow the throats of our children to be cut, is not a runner. Ultimately I don’t care what the rights and wrongs are. We can talk about them all night. But ultimately the people of Europe will defend themselves in the end. The guilt will wear out. The cowardice will wear out. The political correctness will wear out. And they will stand up and fight like they have always done."
So he's definitely gone off the deep end, whatever he might think of Gemma's noxious views on the Jews.
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Post by cato on Jul 15, 2023 12:15:19 GMT
Yes, I read a copy of her "Irish Light" newspaper and there was a whole double-spread in which the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was treated as a factual document. It's so sadly predictable that the right swerve into this tiresome and clichéd anti-semitism all the time. John Waters has been saying some nutty things himself. This is a quotation that he chose to use as a preface to his latest Substack article: "If there’s gonna be fighting, we’re going to have to stand up. It doesn’t matter what’s “right” or “wrong”. This idea that we can knock down statues, and then stand around and allow the throats of our children to be cut, is not a runner. Ultimately I don’t care what the rights and wrongs are. We can talk about them all night. But ultimately the people of Europe will defend themselves in the end. The guilt will wear out. The cowardice will wear out. The political correctness will wear out. And they will stand up and fight like they have always done." So he's definitely gone off the deep end, whatever he might think of Gemma's noxious views on the Jews. Conservatism is a broad church of many tribes who don't agree on everything but avoiding the poisonous legacy of anti semitism is a red line. The radicalisation of Gemma O Doherty is tragic. She was a fine truth seeking courageous journalist. We sorely need people like her but she seems to have never come across a conspiracy theory she doesn't dally with or promote. I like Waters and have read most of his writings. I hope he hasn't totally lost the plot. We do need prophetic thinkers and critics of the current madness. Both figures are owed a debt of thanks for taking on a legal challenge to draconian Covid restrictions in the absence of politicians or liberties groups objecting. Their egos undermined their case and the courts were unsympathetic but at least they tried. Perhaps they both need our prayers. |
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Post by hilary on Jul 18, 2023 23:25:51 GMT
It's important to question everything, especially given what we've lived through in the last few years. With governments acting in lockstep, it's clear to me anyway that there is a hidden hand directing them. (I don't know if it's the Jews but I don't know enough to say it's not). I don't think we should co-operate and self censor. I personally didn't know, for example, that the figure of 6 million Jews having died in ww2 concentration camps had been revised downwards by at least several million, but if, or when, the hate speech law is enacted here maybe that would be considered holocaust denial.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 19, 2023 12:16:07 GMT
It's important to question everything, especially given what we've lived through in the last few years. With governments acting in lockstep, it's clear to me anyway that there is a hidden hand directing them. (I don't know if it's the Jews but I don't know enough to say it's not). I don't think we should co-operate and self censor. I personally didn't know, for example, that the figure of 6 million Jews having died in ww2 concentration camps had been revised downwards by at least several million, but if, or when, the hate speech law is enacted here maybe that would be considered holocaust denial. I'm completely opposed to hate speech legislation and don't think anything (pretty much) should be unsayable, including Holocaust denial, or revisionism, or whatever one wishes to call it. I don't believe for a second that the Jews are pulling the strings of the world. It would be very odd if they continually led the United Nations to condemn Israel in its effort to fight for its existence. And do the rabidly globalist and ultra-woke Irish political elite ever miss a chance to take a swipe at Israel? www.timesofisrael.com/un-condemned-israel-more-than-all-other-countries-combined-in-2022-monitor/www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/israeli-ambassador-accuses-irish-politicians-of-spreading-hate-toward-jewish-state/ |
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Post by Tomas on Jul 20, 2023 8:36:34 GMT
It's important to question everything, especially given what we've lived through in the last few years. With governments acting in lockstep, it's clear to me anyway that there is a hidden hand directing them. (I don't know if it's the Jews but I don't know enough to say it's not). I don't think we should co-operate and self censor. I personally didn't know, for example, that the figure of 6 million Jews having died in ww2 concentration camps had been revised downwards by at least several million, but if, or when, the hate speech law is enacted here maybe that would be considered holocaust denial. Freedom is what comes first, truth second, and honesty toward others perhaps third. Many denials of facts are going on all the time everywhere and by every group. Life is hurt and Love is a sign that is contradicted. Love, the Christ is the only Way. Conservatism the best idea in approach to any challenge too. Only my opinions as they remain. World is played by high tech script while mankind still suffers longing for real humanity to return, against transhumanism evil - and the rest - of "our times" globalist brand or nazi dito. Wars and drugs and locked sins never take leave. So nothing is reducable? (These kinds mentioned only illusion conspiracies or to various extent planned and implemented, your guess as free as mine) In the East it differs. No Christian view, less interest in these topics. Muslims Hindus and Chinese do other things. |
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2023 0:20:54 GMT
It's important to question everything, especially given what we've lived through in the last few years. With governments acting in lockstep, it's clear to me anyway that there is a hidden hand directing them. (I don't know if it's the Jews but I don't know enough to say it's not). I don't think we should co-operate and self censor. I personally didn't know, for example, that the figure of 6 million Jews having died in ww2 concentration camps had been revised downwards by at least several million, but if, or when, the hate speech law is enacted here maybe that would be considered holocaust denial. Hilary I am perhaps overly interested in the historical literature surrounding WW II and am unaware of any reputable historian who has claimed the figure of six million butchered Jews is somehow out by "several million". Care to substantiate that pretty outrageous statement? |
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Post by hilary on Jul 22, 2023 17:27:16 GMT
It's important to question everything, especially given what we've lived through in the last few years. With governments acting in lockstep, it's clear to me anyway that there is a hidden hand directing them. (I don't know if it's the Jews but I don't know enough to say it's not). I don't think we should co-operate and self censor. I personally didn't know, for example, that the figure of 6 million Jews having died in ww2 concentration camps had been revised downwards by at least several million, but if, or when, the hate speech law is enacted here maybe that would be considered holocaust denial. Hilary I am perhaps overly interested in the historical literature surrounding WW II and am unaware of any reputable historian who has claimed the figure of six million butchered Jews is somehow out by "several million". Care to substantiate that pretty outrageous statement? I'm glad you asked me that, Cato. As I said, I'm new to this, so I'll have to do a bit more reading (it is very interesting), but in the meantime as you are interested in the literature surrounding WWII, maybe you would be able to say how you believe the number of six million is calculated. "One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jews.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provides a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate. Lucy Dawidowicz, in her “The War Against the Jews” (1975), used prewar birth and death records to come up with a more precise figure of 5,933,900. And one of the more authoritative German scholars of the subject, Wolfgang Benz, offered a range of 5.3 to 6.2 million. Each used his or her own method to arrive at the totals. Yad Vashem itself also has its Names Database, an ongoing project in which it attempts to collect the name of every Jewish victim of the Nazis. It relies on testimony from family and friends of those who perished, official archives from the period, and local commemoration projects. As of early 2012, Yad Vashem estimated that the database contained the names of a little over four million different individuals (an exact number is not yet possible because it believes that some hundreds of thousands of people appear in multiple records)". (From Haaretz.com). Are you familiar with any of these writers and would you be able to say how they calculated their figures? I also read that "some 271,000 souls was the final camp death toll compiled by the Associated Press in 1946" and obviously that's a big difference and would need to be fact-checked. |
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Post by cato on Jul 22, 2023 19:28:07 GMT
Hilary I am perhaps overly interested in the historical literature surrounding WW II and am unaware of any reputable historian who has claimed the figure of six million butchered Jews is somehow out by "several million". Care to substantiate that pretty outrageous statement? I'm glad you asked me that, Cato. As I said, I'm new to this, so I'll have to do a bit more reading (it is very interesting), but in the meantime as you are interested in the literature surrounding WWII, maybe you would be able to say how you believe the number of six million is calculated. "One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jews.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provides a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate. Lucy Dawidowicz, in her “The War Against the Jews” (1975), used prewar birth and death records to come up with a more precise figure of 5,933,900. And one of the more authoritative German scholars of the subject, Wolfgang Benz, offered a range of 5.3 to 6.2 million. Each used his or her own method to arrive at the totals. Yad Vashem itself also has its Names Database, an ongoing project in which it attempts to collect the name of every Jewish victim of the Nazis. It relies on testimony from family and friends of those who perished, official archives from the period, and local commemoration projects. As of early 2012, Yad Vashem estimated that the database contained the names of a little over four million different individuals (an exact number is not yet possible because it believes that some hundreds of thousands of people appear in multiple records)". (From Haaretz.com). Are you familiar with any of these writers and would you be able to say how they calculated their figures? I also read that "some 271,000 souls was the final camp death toll compiled by the Associated Press in 1946" and obviously that's a big difference and would need to be fact-checked. Vad Vashem claim to have actual physical records of 4.5 million of 6 million massacred innocents if you check their site. Historians reckon 1 million Irish starved to death during the Irish famine , 3.5 to 5 million Ukrainians were murdered by Stalin etc. Precise figures are often hard to come by due to the deliberate destruction of records, and the murder of unrecorded groups like new borns. The scholarly consensus among historians is 6 million Jewish deaths out of an estimated 75-80 million deaths in world war two. The figures are so appalling big as we can't be precise but there is something revolting about the way certain anti semitic types either seek to minimise the total of deaths initially and subsequently end up denying the horror ever occurred. I have never heard of the sources you came up with to be honest. Michael Burleigh (a Catholic Conservative) has written several excellent best selling surveys of Nazism and genocide including the link with Euthanasia. There are plenty of other reputable historians who describe the full horror of fascist and Communist genocides. Timothy Synder in Bloodlands describes the sinister links between Stalinist genocide in Ukraine and the use of starvation to murder millions in addition to the more traditional brutal methods. Hitler learned many of his methods from Stalin. |
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Post by hilary on Jul 24, 2023 16:57:40 GMT
The scholarly consensus among historians is 6 million Jewish deaths out of an estimated 75-80 million deaths in world war two. The figures are so appalling big as we can't be precise but there is something revolting about the way certain anti semitic types either seek to minimise the total of deaths initially and subsequently end up denying the horror ever occurred. I'd prefer a more "3D" approach, as James Corbett might put it. This article is from February 2022, and about the situation then starting to unfold in Ukraine, but he mentions the period around WWII here: "Or should we begin the narrative in WWII, when Bandera and his Ukrainian nationalist brethren collaborated with the Nazis in a bid to maintain independence from Russia? Or maybe we should go back to the Holodomor, when Stalin intentionally starved over three million Ukrainians as part of an attempt to crush Ukrainian nationalist movements." corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-ukraine-crisis-what-you-need?utm_source=urlIt is very difficult to read the accounts of the treatment of 3m Polish Jews who are said to have died in WW2. The figures are so big and the accounts so appalling - but that's all the more reason to try and be precise and to try and understand what happened. The current mainstream narrative - propaganda - about Covid, Ukraine, the Climate Crisis etc has to make you question the narrative about WW2. For example the Jewish declaration of war on Nazi Germany is not something we hear much about but it was on the front page of the Daily Express on the 24th March 1933 (so it must be true) : www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.htmlThe US Holocaust Memorial Museum gives statistics on immigration to the US in the lead-up to WW2 and mentions restrictions on "undesirables", including Jews. An average of over 910,000 people immigrated to the US every year between 1900 and 1915, dropping to an average of approx 124,000 from 1915-24, but in 1933 only 1,241 Germans received visas and over 24,000 visas which could have been issued to Germans, weren't. Most didn't have the money to immigrate. Can people using the term "anti-semitism" define it? Wikipedia says it's a form of racism but after listening to E Michael Jones I can see the problem with that in that Christians and Jews come from the same race or ethnicity. |
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Post by Tomas on Jul 25, 2023 6:21:54 GMT
"The figures are so appalling big as we can't be precise but there is something revolting about the way certain anti semitic types either seek to minimise the total of deaths initially and subsequently end up denying the horror ever occurred."
Absolutely the problem.
Apart from numbers and denial of atrocities the real anti-Jewish and anti-Christian ways of the Nazis and Communists are appalling in itself. No matter what view on the politics of others, certain crimes are crimes against humanity as the saying is. Genocide is not a theoretical.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jul 25, 2023 19:39:17 GMT
The scholarly consensus among historians is 6 million Jewish deaths out of an estimated 75-80 million deaths in world war two. The figures are so appalling big as we can't be precise but there is something revolting about the way certain anti semitic types either seek to minimise the total of deaths initially and subsequently end up denying the horror ever occurred. I'd prefer a more "3D" approach, as James Corbett might put it. This article is from February 2022, and about the situation then starting to unfold in Ukraine, but he mentions the period around WWII here: "Or should we begin the narrative in WWII, when Bandera and his Ukrainian nationalist brethren collaborated with the Nazis in a bid to maintain independence from Russia? Or maybe we should go back to the Holodomor, when Stalin intentionally starved over three million Ukrainians as part of an attempt to crush Ukrainian nationalist movements." corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-ukraine-crisis-what-you-need?utm_source=urlIt is very difficult to read the accounts of the treatment of 3m Polish Jews who are said to have died in WW2. The figures are so big and the accounts so appalling - but that's all the more reason to try and be precise and to try and understand what happened. The current mainstream narrative - propaganda - about Covid, Ukraine, the Climate Crisis etc has to make you question the narrative about WW2. For example the Jewish declaration of war on Nazi Germany is not something we hear much about but it was on the front page of the Daily Express on the 24th March 1933 (so it must be true) : www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.htmlThe US Holocaust Memorial Museum gives statistics on immigration to the US in the lead-up to WW2 and mentions restrictions on "undesirables", including Jews. An average of over 910,000 people immigrated to the US every year between 1900 and 1915, dropping to an average of approx 124,000 from 1915-24, but in 1933 only 1,241 Germans received visas and over 24,000 visas which could have been issued to Germans, weren't. Most didn't have the money to immigrate. Can people using the term "anti-semitism" define it? Wikipedia says it's a form of racism but after listening to E Michael Jones I can see the problem with that in that Christians and Jews come from the same race or ethnicity. Anti-Semitism is prejudice and hostility against the Jewish people. I wouldn't call it racism myself. |
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Post by hilary on Jul 25, 2023 22:24:55 GMT
Would all these resolutions against Israel have been brought because previous ones have been disregarded? Maybe Israel doesn't need to be concerned about these resolutions. They have a strong ally in the US with a veto on Security Council resolutions. The Times of Israel article contains a link to an article about a UN Commission of Inquiry investigating human rights abuses in Israel/Palestine and one of the members spoke about efforts to undermine the work of the Commission, especially on social media. "Miloon Kothari, one of three members of a UN Commission of Inquiry (COI) investigating rights abuses in Israel and the Palestinian territories, triggered outrage after the interview with online publication Mondoweiss, which came out on July 25.
Asked about member states’ criticisms of the commission, Kothari pointed to wider efforts to undermine the investigation.
“We are very disheartened by the social media that is controlled largely by, whether it is the Jewish lobby or it is specific NGOs, a lot of money is being thrown into trying to discredit us,” he said in the interview".
He had to make a grovelling apology and the Israeli Foreign Ministry called for the Commission to be disbanded and the member to resign. USA Facts website says that the US approved over $3.8 bn in foreign assistance to Israel in 2019. |
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Post by Tomas on Jul 26, 2023 5:51:18 GMT
I'm glad you asked me that, Cato. As I said, I'm new to this, so I'll have to do a bit more reading (it is very interesting), but in the meantime as you are interested in the literature surrounding WWII, maybe you would be able to say how you believe the number of six million is calculated. "One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic “The Destruction of the European Jews.” In the third edition, from 1985, he provides a lengthy appendix explaining how he calculated the estimate. Lucy Dawidowicz, in her “The War Against the Jews” (1975), used prewar birth and death records to come up with a more precise figure of 5,933,900. And one of the more authoritative German scholars of the subject, Wolfgang Benz, offered a range of 5.3 to 6.2 million. Each used his or her own method to arrive at the totals. Yad Vashem itself also has its Names Database, an ongoing project in which it attempts to collect the name of every Jewish victim of the Nazis. It relies on testimony from family and friends of those who perished, official archives from the period, and local commemoration projects. As of early 2012, Yad Vashem estimated that the database contained the names of a little over four million different individuals (an exact number is not yet possible because it believes that some hundreds of thousands of people appear in multiple records)". (From Haaretz.com). Are you familiar with any of these writers and would you be able to say how they calculated their figures? I also read that "some 271,000 souls was the final camp death toll compiled by the Associated Press in 1946" and obviously that's a big difference and would need to be fact-checked. Vad Vashem claim to have actual physical records of 4.5 million of 6 million massacred innocents if you check their site. Historians reckon 1 million Irish starved to death during the Irish famine , 3.5 to 5 million Ukrainians were murdered by Stalin etc. Precise figures are often hard to come by due to the deliberate destruction of records, and the murder of unrecorded groups like new borns. The scholarly consensus among historians is 6 million Jewish deaths out of an estimated 75-80 million deaths in world war two. The figures are so appalling big as we can't be precise but there is something revolting about the way certain anti semitic types either seek to minimise the total of deaths initially and subsequently end up denying the horror ever occurred. I have never heard of the sources you came up with to be honest. Michael Burleigh (a Catholic Conservative) has written several excellent best selling surveys of Nazism and genocide including the link with Euthanasia. There are plenty of other reputable historians who describe the full horror of fascist and Communist genocides. Timothy Synder in Bloodlands describes the sinister links between Stalinist genocide in Ukraine and the use of starvation to murder millions in addition to the more traditional brutal methods. Hitler learned many of his methods from Stalin. Churchill and fatal British politics in India could be added. Starvation due to politics, orchestrated. |
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Post by cato on Jul 26, 2023 12:11:49 GMT
[quote [/quote]Churchill and fatal British politics in India could be added.
[/quote]
This thread has really gone all over the place from Gemma o Doherty to doubting the figure of six million Jews, to modern Israel to Churchill. All very interesting topics buy can we create separate threads if people want to start a conversation on a specific area.
To go back to the original posts it is interesting that the far right and the far left are still obsessed about Jews and Israel. No such concern about the brutal dictatorial Islamic regimes in Iran or Syria that butcher and oppress large numbers of their Islamic citizens. Israel is a functioning democracy as anyone who has viewed the widespread anti government protests of recent weeks can see.
Tomas I am not sure if you want to accuse Churchill of genocide in India ?This is one of the most current Internet slurs labeled against him. Ironically many ignorant propagandists freqently claim "Churchill was worse than the Nazis....."
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