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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 7, 2021 20:22:47 GMT
I'm not sure it was simply a case of sloppy security. It seems extraordinary that they should have got in with tension so high and the event so well-advertised. I really question whether it was not an intentional "lapse" considering the huge damage it will cause Trump. And some of the participants are so zany and visible, I do wonder if they are for real.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 7, 2021 22:08:16 GMT
Do people really believe Trump won a landslide victory which was "stolen" ? In all honesty I don't know. But it does seem highly suspicious that counting was stopped on election night in many states where Trump was leading, and that postal votes gave Biden a commanding lead in those states when counting resumed. And Trump decried this at the time. I don't see why it should count against him that he warned of the dangers of postal votes before the election. |
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Post by hilary on Jan 7, 2021 22:36:18 GMT
The Irish Times front page article today by Suzanne Lynch includes the following -"Trump spoke for more than an hour....making false claims of voter fraud" and "shortly after, Mr Trump ...repeated his baseless claims that the presidential election was rigged". The two words here "false" and "baseless" are typical of mainstream coverage of the election. How does Suzanne know this and could she just give us the evidence? It's laughable in a way but also a bit embarrassing. Do the IT have so little respect for their readers? Is she aware of her bias and is she being made to do it or is she just such a committed Democrat that she believes it's justified? And if the latter, why would a journalist writing for an Irish newspaper be so invested in the result of the election?
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Post by cato on Jan 7, 2021 22:46:29 GMT
I'm not sure it was simply a case of sloppy security. It seems extraordinary that they should have got in with tension so high and the event so well-advertised. I really question whether it was not an intentional "lapse" considering the huge damage it will cause Trump. And some of the participants are so zany and visible, I do wonder if they are for real. I also read that the protest was actually an Intifa plot to embarrass Trump!At some point these ever increasing bizarre conspiracy theories cause us to cut adrift from reality. Historically human stupidity, laziness and just plain incompetence account for far more harm than any amount of shady plotting or conspiracies . The capitol security police were unprepared. That's a serious flaw no one appears to be worried or concerned about. But let's all lose our heads and join the hysteria!!! |
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Post by cato on Jan 7, 2021 23:07:25 GMT
Do people really believe Trump won a landslide victory which was "stolen" ? In all honesty I don't know. But it does seem highly suspicious that counting was stopped on election night in many states where Trump was leading, and that postal votes gave Biden a commanding lead in those states when counting resumed. And Trump decried this at the time. I don't see why it should count against him that he warned of the dangers of postal votes before the election. Trump rubbished postal voting in advance encouraging his supporters to vote in person. The democrats in contrast were guided by Covid prevention concerns and adopted the opposite position deliberately encouraging postal ballots. Trump deliberately advocated this policy, it now seems to me in order to muddy the waters further down the road .Both methods are equally possible to manipulate if you have a vast machinery of coercive power at your disposal as in China. That level of fraud is just not possible in the USA. Naturally Trump polled well at the ballot box . His vote peaked at that point. The additional postal vote swung heavily against him as they were largely democrat votes. In 1945 the UK armed forces vote was largely postal and swung heavily against Churchill causing a huge Labour landslide which suprised many observers including Stalin. All the courts that threw out the Republican appeals including a sympathetic Supreme Court , which rejected cases twice, stated the cases were simply assertions with no supporting evidence. 4 years ago many Democrats cried foul when Hilary Clinton took more than 5 million votes than Trump but lost the White house. They were wrong then . Those crying foul now are equally deluded. Constantly undermining democratic decisions when the losers don't like the result is dangerous as we saw with the Brexit saga. Accepting defeat is a part and parcel of a healthy normal democracy. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 7, 2021 23:43:55 GMT
Of course there is always a danger of getting lost in conspiracy theories and often the simplest explanation is the truth. And the court defeats were certainly hard to explain away. But I still have a definite sense of the "deep State" at work here. I might be wrong.
I don't think Trump was so much rubbishing postal votes as warning of how vulnerable they were to fraud, and they would seem to be by their very nature.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jan 8, 2021 1:38:06 GMT
Of course there is always a danger of getting lost in conspiracy theories and often the simplest explanation is the truth. And the court defeats were certainly hard to explain away. But I still have a definite sense of the "deep State" at work here. I might be wrong. I don't think Trump was so much rubbishing postal votes as warning of how vulnerable they were to fraud, and they would seem to be by their very nature. Almost lost for words right now. But I will say I neither shame the idea of conspiracy theory, nor of Deep State involvement here. Whether such involvement is sufficient to destroy the requisite number of Trump votes or create the requisite number of Biden votes is quite a question. Personally, I would never have thought so in the past - but who can really say what is going on today? Certainly, not me. More generally, I am left with a terrible sense of the world - bombarded 24/7 round the clock by the most powerful mind-influencing technology ever created - going mad. Truly, tragically mad. And I don't think either the Left or the Right has a monopoly on this madness. Misere Nobis. |
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Post by Tomas on Jan 8, 2021 11:45:18 GMT
Of course there is always a danger of getting lost in conspiracy theories and often the simplest explanation is the truth. And the court defeats were certainly hard to explain away. But I still have a definite sense of the "deep State" at work here. I might be wrong. I don't think Trump was so much rubbishing postal votes as warning of how vulnerable they were to fraud, and they would seem to be by their very nature. Almost lost for words right now. But I will say I neither shame the idea of conspiracy theory, nor of Deep State involvement here. Whether such involvement is sufficient to destroy the requisite number of Trump votes or create the requisite number of Biden votes is quite a question. Personally, I would never have thought so in the past - but who can really say what is going on today? Certainly, not me. More generally, I am left with a terrible sense of the world - bombarded 24/7 round the clock by the most powerful mind-influencing technology ever created - going mad. Truly, tragically mad. And I don't think either the Left or the Right has a monopoly on this madness. Misere Nobis. Why the need to always sink to that use of the bad word (conspiracy theories) when the important thing at stake is the safeguard of the democratic voting system itself. It may have been all wrong on my part to earlier have stated the fears in the use of digital machineries. It appear to have been more about the way certain states, mostly Democrat ones, used the covid fixation to alter the procedures. The claim that Texas and 17 or so other states along them are lifting in dispute. While even that got turned down without any reserve may be a sign of the confusing times. Constitutional questions are those were Supreme Court would act, not particular voting fraud cases as such, supposedly. So their choice to not make any involvement would be only reasonable. That state Courts didn´t want to give the Trump Republican claims a fair process in scrutiny is more disturbing to the outsider. Was it too embarrassing? Did "everyone" want to get rid of president Trump most of all, so that "minor" flaws in the counting were dismissed altogether to make it less embarrassing officially? I am at a full loss by now. But not convinced that "all is well and the Democrats are well in their intentions and conduct, and all is well in what is the right results stated so why be critical when all is already perfectly clear". I almost wish it was only a bad looser with a bad temperament and no other doubts about the factual matters than that. |
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Post by cato on Jan 8, 2021 16:08:46 GMT
The idea now widely propagated on western media that the US narrowly avoided a Fascist coup this week is utterly farcical.
Trump still controls the most powerful military on earth and has access to CIA FBI and vast Homeland security resources. None of these assets, much experienced in often involuntary regime change in other countries , has been used to thwart the election result. Trump may dispute and deny electoral reality but he has not attempted a serious illegal military challenge. He has the means but has thankfully not been tempted to put tanks on the streets.
Overnight Trump has condemned the capitol takeover and has said the law must take it course thus throwing his Capitol occupiers under the bus. Biden meanwhile has forgotten all his talk about unity by denouncing the occupiers with barely concealed spite as "insurrectionists and domestic terrorists". This is frankly inflammatory nonsense. Coming from a man who still justifies BLM protests which destroyed countless businesses and jobs and killed scores last summer this is indeed rich.
The age of partisan division and nastiness is not over. We may have changed political parties but one side of America will continue to enrage, spite and patronize the other. Another sorry chapter begins.
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Post by cato on Jan 9, 2021 10:06:47 GMT
RTE NEWS on line have put up an article this morning speculating that Trump may launch world war iii and Armageddon due to undisclosed mental health issues. Therefore he must be removed. The idea the president will simply obliterate humanity on a whim is alarmist hysteria.The last few days have seen this sort of deliberate media fear mongering reach new depths.
Hypothetically any of the 9 acknowledged nuclear states leaders could go crazy but it tends not to happen. So far. You could argue convincingly enough this is a terrible state of affairs but it is the world as we know it for almost 70 years now and by and large nuclear blackmail has prevented world war iii. If it all goes wrong is another matter.
If the presidents mental state is to be queried in public by people like Nanci Pelosi it's a good job no one has any concerns about incoming president Bidens memory or mental state........
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Post by hilary on Jan 9, 2021 10:27:15 GMT
RTE NEWS on line have put up an article this morning speculating that Trump may launch world war iii and Armageddon due to undisclosed mental health issues. Therefore he must be removed. The idea the president will simply obliterate humanity on a whim is alarmist hysteria.The last few days have seen this sort of deliberate media fear mongering reach new depths. Hypothetically any of the 9 acknowledged nuclear states leaders could go crazy but it tends not to happen. So far. You could argue convincingly enough this is a terrible state of affairs but it is the world as we know it for almost 70 years now and by and large nuclear blackmail has prevented world war iii. If it all goes wrong is another matter. If the presidents mental state is to be queried in public by people like Nanci Pelosi it's a good job no one has any concerns about incoming president Bidens memory or mental state........ The football and the biscuit! They don't say towards where he might launch the missile - are we supposed to know that?🤔 |
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Post by cato on Jan 9, 2021 13:21:12 GMT
RTE NEWS on line have put up an article this morning speculating that Trump may launch world war iii and Armageddon due to undisclosed mental health issues. Therefore he must be removed. The idea the president will simply obliterate humanity on a whim is alarmist hysteria.The last few days have seen this sort of deliberate media fear mongering reach new depths. Hypothetically any of the 9 acknowledged nuclear states leaders could go crazy but it tends not to happen. So far. You could argue convincingly enough this is a terrible state of affairs but it is the world as we know it for almost 70 years now and by and large nuclear blackmail has prevented world war iii. If it all goes wrong is another matter. If the presidents mental state is to be queried in public by people like Nanci Pelosi it's a good job no one has any concerns about incoming president Bidens memory or mental state........ The football and the biscuit! They don't say towards where he might launch the missile - are we supposed to know that?🤔 I suspect he might bomb the capitol on inauguration day??? |
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Post by cato on Jan 12, 2021 19:54:25 GMT
Reports of armed rallies being called in each state to protest the result are highly concerning.
The level of violence at the capitol was also more extreme than I first thought.In US law actively undermining the processes of government constitutes sedition. This is unparalled in American history since the civil war.
Some may object by pointing out the hypocrisy of those who ignored BLM and ANTIFA riots and destruction. Yes they are hypocrites but they are right to call out the current attempt at mob rule .All rioting and destruction of property is wrong . The right should not adopt a
mirror image of leftist selective outrage at some rioting and some violent protesting.
Trump should be dumped . He should be impeached and he should face criminal charges.
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Post by Stephen on Jan 13, 2021 10:35:50 GMT
Reports of armed rallies being called in each state to protest the result are highly concerning. The level of violence at the capitol was also more extreme than I first thought.In US law actively undermining the processes of government constitutes sedition. This is unparalled in American history since the civil war. Some may object by pointing out the hypocrisy of those who ignored BLM and ANTIFA riots and destruction. Yes they are hypocrites but they are right to call out the current attempt at mob rule .All rioting and destruction of property is wrong . The right should not adopt a mirror image of leftist selective outrage at some rioting and some violent protesting. Trump should be dumped . He should be impeached and he should face criminal charges. Do you have a source for these armed rallies? I do not trust the whole situation. It sound like something the CIA would come up with for a Banana Republic. Its dangerous to send your President/leader to Prison, sounds kind of tyrannical. At the moment he is a dead duck that will be kicked out of office in a few days. (I imagine plenty of powerful people from both parties are looking forward to what you think should happen) |
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Post by cato on Jan 13, 2021 17:24:33 GMT
Do you have a source for these armed rallies?[br Cato- I do indeed Stephen. It was on yesterday's The American Conservative website. Quoted by Rod Dreher. Was on ABC news based on leaked FBI memos. Dreher goes into it in much more detail with quotes from people calling for armed resistance. ]I do not trust the whole situation. It sound like something the CIA would come up with for a Banana Republic.[b Cato - The CIA are not saints but even they didn't get involve with this shambolic farce at the Capitol. This made banana republics look positively sophisticated! r] Its dangerous to send your President/leader to Prison, sounds kind of tyrannical.[b Cato That's why the president takes a solemn promise to defend the constitution and it's institutions. He is meant to guard against this type of craziness .Encouraging a mob to threaten law makers carrying out their duty seems perilously close to tyranny. History is full of tyrants , most of whom alas escape earthly justice. r]At the moment he is a dead duck that will be kicked out of office in a few days. (I imagine plenty of powerful people from both parties are looking forward to what you think should happen) Cato I am a non American merely offering an opinion which will have zero impact on anyone. It was Mr Trump who loudly campaigned on ,but failed to act on jailing Hilary Clinton. It would be ironic if he is the one who ends up behind bars. Conservatives do not endorse mob rule , subverting the constitution and undermining democracy. These things are more important and bigger than Donald Trump a man who previously sought to run as a democrat and an independent candidate for the White house. |
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